Why aren't there girl groups anymore?

Jay Ray: 00:00:00

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DJ Sir Daniel: 00:01:15

Yeah, look, I'm doing the J Ray body roll, right? Every time.

Jay Ray: 00:01:19

I'm gonna do that. So if y'all see me out dancing, I'm gonna do that.

DJ Sir Daniel: 00:01:23

Mind your business. J Ray is doing his body roll. That's it. Mind your business. What's up, everybody? Welcome to another episode of Q Points. I am DJ Sir Daniel.

Jay Ray: 00:01:33

I am J. Ray and also known by my government as Johnny Ray Kornegay iii.

DJ Sir Daniel: 00:01:38

J Ray, you got some news for the party people? Hit him with it.

Jay Ray: 00:01:42

Let me tell you. Let me tell y'all something. Do you see how excited we are? Because y'all super excited. This is what happened.

We just hit 100 likes on, and we got a sound effect and everything.

DJ Sir Daniel: 00:02:01

Sound effect. We have a live studio audience. What are you talking about?

Jay Ray: 00:02:04

Listen. Yes. You can't see them behind this wall. Sir Daniel, how does this feel?

DJ Sir Daniel: 00:02:13

It feels awesome. I'm not surprised because we put in the work. Great production on your side. Absolutely. You know, I do my thing when it comes to content.

Jay Ray: 00:02:25

Yes, you do.

DJ Sir Daniel: 00:02:27

The combination works. It just. It is what it is. We want those numbers to keep going up.

Jay Ray: 00:02:32

Yes.

DJ Sir Daniel: 00:02:32

So please share this show wherever you go. We're on Instagram, at Q. At Q.

Jay Ray: 00:02:41

No, we're on IG and on Twitter. We're at Q Show. And you are. Yeah. And here on Facebook, we are at Q Show, too. Or you just look us up on Cue points. We here.

DJ Sir Daniel: 00:02:52

Or look at the screen because it's right there in front of you. We. If you're. If you're following us, you need to go ahead and follow us on those platforms as well. So it's been a really good.

It's been a really good few past few days since we last talked. Record Store day was awesome. Had an awesome Day, I loved your. I loved your content.

Regarding your record store Day finds the people have been eating up that content as well. So. Hey, we got. Listen, we're plugged in.

Jay Ray: 00:03:25

Plug.

DJ Sir Daniel: 00:03:25

We are plugged in.

Jay Ray: 00:03:27

Listen, though, can you share with the audience what. Because you did stuff. You was out like doing a thing and. And had a really good weekend. So talk to us about what you did.

DJ Sir Daniel: 00:03:37

Oh, we. So we did the. The Wax Fundamentals crew. We went to Lamont's Firearms and Supply store in Flowery Branch here in Georgia. And we basically do.

What we do is Wex Fundamentals. We put on some dope vinyl sets. Like, we spin vinyl, the old school stuff. And there's no. There's no sync buttons, nothing. It's just strictly skills.

And we had a special guest. We had DJ JC in the building.

Jay Ray: 00:04:09

Big deal.

DJ Sir Daniel: 00:04:10

That's a major deal. JC is a huge. He's a legend here out in these ATL streets and beyond because he has mixes all over the world playing on the Internet.

You can catch him on Twitch every day for his In Effect Mode show. And. But he came and showed out. I love his set. His set, in a word, was Supersonic. It was Supersonic. That's all I could say.

And speaking of Supersonic, I'd like to give a shout out to the ladies of JJ Fad. Monday, June 4th, 14th, marked the 33rd anniversary of their album release. Supersonic. The album. Can you believe.

Jay Ray: 00:04:58

They deserve it?

DJ Sir Daniel: 00:05:00

They deserve it. Can you believe it's been 33 years of wow. Of. Of west coast royalty.

Like, this is like, he probably the first and only major rap group, female rap group. And I hate using the word female, so. Excuse me, y'all. Right. Women rap group that has come out from the West Coast.

Jay Ray: 00:05:22

Yep.

DJ Sir Daniel: 00:05:23

They broke. They broke all kinds of barriers. You know, Supersonic was the lead single. It went gold and eventually went platinum.

Then they dropped the whole album, which I have to say, I sat with this album for 33 years. This is a dope album. A lot of people like to say what they want about. About JJ Fat and they were pop and they were corny.

But this is a very solid album. Like, on the A side, you get bass, electro, funk, pop. That's been. On the B side, you have your street jams, your.

Your hip hop party jams, and scathing diss records. Like, they were no joke on the mic. They had Dr. Dre behind them. I mean, this album, literally, if it was not for this album, you would not have.

With an attitude, you would not have. Easy does it you would not have any of that stuff. You wouldn't have.

You wouldn't even have the Straight out of Compton movie if it were not for this album. Putting Ruthless Records on the. On the spot, putting them on a worldwide map. And even the album cover, like, look at all these bright colors.

You know, the Nike. First of all, I would rock these Nike volleyball jerseys today if you could find these. I'm pretty certain these cost a pretty penny. Yes, but first.

But album covers weren't this bright and colorful.

Jay Ray: 00:06:52

No.

DJ Sir Daniel: 00:06:52

You know, until. Until you had this influence from McJB, Sassy C and Baby D, you know.

Jay Ray: 00:07:01

So congratulations to jj.

DJ Sir Daniel: 00:07:04

Shout out to them. But J. Ray, I gotta ask you a question.

Jay Ray: 00:07:07

Yes.

DJ Sir Daniel: 00:07:08

So the song, of course, that put them on the mat was Supersonic. Right. So this is the original 12 inch cover for Supersonic.

Jay Ray: 00:07:19

Right. And. And what's funny about this cover is when you compare it to what you just showed us, this is more like what we were used to.

DJ Sir Daniel: 00:07:27

Exactly. In terms of hip hop on the East Coast. Exactly. Now, but what you didn't know is that there were five members.

Jay Ray: 00:07:39

I guess the other girls felt like.

DJ Sir Daniel: 00:07:42

They should be making more money. Yes, but people in the group.

Jay Ray: 00:07:46

Exactly.

DJ Sir Daniel: 00:07:46

Money is not pouring in. There's no hit singles yet.

Jay Ray: 00:07:49

Right.

DJ Sir Daniel: 00:07:50

So they left for money. Reasons basically correct move they probably regret.

Jay Ray: 00:07:53

Oh, sure.

DJ Sir Daniel: 00:07:55

Do you ever run into them, like, later on in life? I'm still friends with them. Really?

Jay Ray: 00:07:59

Yes, I am.

DJ Sir Daniel: 00:08:00

Are they at all bitter over the.

Jay Ray: 00:08:02

Situation or not bitter with this cordial? I mean, it was their decision, you know? You know, you can't be mad at something like, okay, I didn't want to.

DJ Sir Daniel: 00:08:12

Be in a group no more, you.

Jay Ray: 00:08:13

Know, so we are definitely still cool. And they're probably happy because they are writers on Supersonic. So every time they use our song for something, they get paid. Yes. So, yeah.

So I'm sure that they're happy in that aspect.

DJ Sir Daniel: 00:08:26

Listen, five members, they left and they became a super trio.

Jay Ray: 00:08:33

Yeah. Wow. So what's interesting is when you.

When you think about, you know, what's coming up for me, like Oaktowns357 is coming up for me, who had four members and then went down to a duo. I think 702. Yeah, it was. Yeah. And it was three and then it.

DJ Sir Daniel: 00:08:51

Was three and then it went to two.

Jay Ray: 00:08:53

Nuts. You have 702, 702, who was a four and then went down to three. Like, it's interesting when you think of the.

The beginning of so many of these groups and how as they're getting on how the group. These groups evolved so that I did not know that.

DJ Sir Daniel: 00:09:12

And so this. That actually led me to. It just sent me on a journey. Like, all these things just kept popping up.

So I finally sat down and watched my recording of BETS presents the encore. So now the encore. And I was like, I called J. Ray up. I was like, j Ray, please, you gotta watch this and we gotta talk about it.

I got so many feelings about this. If. For those of you who haven't tuned in yet, BET presents the encore.

The premise of this reality show is to invite former members of girl groups to live in a mansion and to form a super group to create music together and perform said music together.

Jay Ray: 00:09:56

Yes.

DJ Sir Daniel: 00:09:56

Sounds like a recipe for disaster. Doesn't.

Jay Ray: 00:10:00

Sounds and feels like when you watch the first episode, like a recipe for disaster. What I also found interesting is, yes. It's like all of these members. First of all, it's nine people total, which is crazy.

DJ Sir Daniel: 00:10:15

Which is.

Jay Ray: 00:10:17

And then you have one solo act. So Nivea is there. And I was like, I don't even know how this happened. So that was interesting thing.

DJ Sir Daniel: 00:10:28

And the funny thing is, is that Nivea appears to be the most grounded.

Jay Ray: 00:10:33

Yes.

DJ Sir Daniel: 00:10:33

And the most flexible out of all the participants. We got Pam from Total.

Jay Ray: 00:10:39

Yes.

DJ Sir Daniel: 00:10:40

Keely from 3Lw and Cheetah Girl Spain. Oh, and of course, Kentucky Fried Chicken fame. Yes. Aubrey O'Day. I don't think you caught that about the Kentucky fries.

Jay Ray: 00:10:51

I did, I did.

DJ Sir Daniel: 00:10:54

You want me to throw a piece of chicken at you? Let me stop. Aubrey O'Day from Danny V. Kane. As you mentioned, 702, Cherish and more.

And it's like you have all these acts all spanning from different decades, all had various levels of success, and the majority of the bands are now defunct due to various reasons. Which makes me wonder, are we the public? Are we responsible for the reason why girl group groups don't succeed?

I mean, the media managers, producers, the public. Why aren't our black girl groups surviving?

Jay Ray: 00:11:42

This is such an important topic. So to put this in perspective, when I think about what we do here at cue points, for me.

DJ Sir Daniel: 00:11:55

Girl groups.

Jay Ray: 00:11:56

And we're using this term. It's a popular term, girl group. So it's not. I feel like it's one of those terms that we also have to analyze at some point because these.

These are women, right? These. They may start as girls, but then they typically are grow to women as they're in these groups, but they still call them girl groups.

And so I think we have to look at that. But that's not what we're talking about here. I think what this. Girl groups, for me, typically are some of the most creatively interesting groups. Cuz.

Cuz women have the ability to have different molds when they show up in their music, which sometimes makes the work more compelling. When I tend to find that guy groups or boy bands tend to be one dimensional. And so I am so glad we're asking this question because we.

I would love to have more girl groups.

DJ Sir Daniel: 00:12:59

Yeah. I mean, when you think about it right now, who do we have? We got the City girls.

Jay Ray: 00:13:05

That's it, right?

DJ Sir Daniel: 00:13:07

I think that's.

Jay Ray: 00:13:09

I literally think that's it.

DJ Sir Daniel: 00:13:11

I can't think of any R and B group. And I mean R B girl groups that are like, main mainstream at this time.

Jay Ray: 00:13:19

Nope.

DJ Sir Daniel: 00:13:19

Right off the top of my. And you know, there's. I know that there's. There's a crowd of people that support R B that say, oh, the real R B is still out there. Oh, okay.

They'd be mad at us if we forgot about Chloe and Haley.

Jay Ray: 00:13:35

Chloe and Haley. But Chloe and Hallelujah. And here's what's funny about those two. Like, these are both duos. Right? Right.

DJ Sir Daniel: 00:13:43

And their sisters.

Jay Ray: 00:13:44

And their sisters. So it's like a different thing we're talking about. Yeah. We just don't. There's the only. There's. They're the only two that I know of. And that's nuts.

Oh, there was Saint. Oh, I'm gonna Think I'm gonna. I'm gonna. Their name is escaping me.

DJ Sir Daniel: 00:14:04

That was Beauty.

Jay Ray: 00:14:05

Saint Beauty. Saint Beauty. From Atlanta.

DJ Sir Daniel: 00:14:08

From Atlanta.

Jay Ray: 00:14:09

Duo.

DJ Sir Daniel: 00:14:10

And they. Another duo. Which is fine. Which is. But we're talking about, you know, the. And we'll talk about this later some more. But there is magic in the.

The number of three, you know, if you think about the most popular girl groups of all time. Let's take it back. Let's take it back to the. The girl group that just exploded and changed everything. Let's talk about The Supremes.

Jay Ray: 00:14:34

The OGs.

DJ Sir Daniel: 00:14:36

No, wait, let me. Let me correct myself. Are we talking about the Supremes or are we talking about Diana Ross and the Supremes? Because.

Because, you know, some distinctions were made.

Jay Ray: 00:14:45

Distinctions were made.

And I think that as we dive into this conversation, I think it's when those distinction distinctions start to have to be made by men that we begin to have the cracks that begin to show up in these groups. So, yes, we're talking about the Supremes. I. It's funny. I Don't even say Diana Ross and the Supremes.

Like, I definitely will just say the Supremes because it's, it's weird to say, but after Diana left that group, yes, the Supremes continued on, but the Supremes were, were Diana and Mary and Florence and then I think Cindy Bird song. So that's like. Yeah, so that's kind of like the, the nucleus of it. And look at all the stuff that happened.

You had, you had the group go from the Supremes to Diana Ross and the Supremes. Oh, and another note. The Supremes as well, started out as a, as a, as a group group of four when they were the Primettes, there was four of them.

And they also went down to a trio.

DJ Sir Daniel: 00:15:58

And so, but they were the blueprint, like, you know, for modern music. They were the blueprint as far as the way of dressing women uniformly. Yes. Choreography, even if it just meant snapping your fingers in a uniform way.

Jay Ray: 00:16:16

Yep.

DJ Sir Daniel: 00:16:16

You know, all of that stuff meant something. And then let's even take it further to the fact they were the, one of the first girl groups, black girl groups to be on television.

If you talk to anybody that would grew up in that time where the, who is it? Ed Sullivan?

When the Sullivan show show was on and those three black girls showed up on the television screen, that changed the world for black America.

Jay Ray: 00:16:44

Mm.

DJ Sir Daniel: 00:16:45

So they mean a whole lot more beyond the music, right?

Jay Ray: 00:16:51

Yes.

DJ Sir Daniel: 00:16:52

So, but I think, and this is just me thinking out loud, I think that we're not happy as a society until we tear down and destroy something that we love. And let's take, and we'll take the Supremes, for instance. The Supremes.

You know, it's, it's been wildly known that the Supremes are the, the basis and loosely base the, for the, the stage play Dream Girls, right?

Jay Ray: 00:17:25

Yes.

DJ Sir Daniel: 00:17:26

s. The movie that came out in: 2006

It's about a girl group, and we can't get enough of it because there's drama, you know, that's so much right there.

Jay Ray: 00:17:50

The scene that we just watched, oh.

DJ Sir Daniel: 00:17:52

My God, it's like the boiling, the boiling point of drama in the show when Effie finds out that she's been replaced as the lead singer and they brought in another girl so that they, they could still remain a trio.

Jay Ray: 00:18:06

Yep. Man, I, I, I hear. Where you, where you going with this? I, we, I mean, we proved time and time again going, let's go back to the encore.

The reason why the encore had to be made is because we need. We like seeing this type of drama play out on tv.

And you know for a fact that behind the scenes, these producers are doing all types of stuff to make sure that the pot gets stirred just the right way. Because let me tell you something. What I know about what I.

What my experience is with people is that when you enter a space that has that many different personalities, there's a way that you show up. You know what I'm saying? And it's not the way that. That what we saw on tv, the way people show up, you know, so we like drama. And we. We. We.

Yeah, we like that.

DJ Sir Daniel: 00:19:11

We love it. Look, they got Pam from Total, who is now a born again Christian.

Jay Ray: 00:19:18

Yes.

DJ Sir Daniel: 00:19:19

So you have that. Then you have Keely, like I said from three LW and Cheetah Girls, who is a. Who is, for lack of. For lack of a better term, a villain on these.

On these Internet streets because of, you know, the fame, the fable of her throwing chicken at Notori Horton, who used to be in a group and left after that incident. And, you know, just. And she's there to stir the pot herself because she's claiming she's not. She doesn't want to be in the group.

She wants to be a creative.

Jay Ray: 00:19:50

Creative director. She wants to be a creative director.

DJ Sir Daniel: 00:19:53

I'm like, you know what? I'm like, come on, y'all. I know the producer. The producers told you to say they.

Jay Ray: 00:20:00

Guess they literally, like, was like, no. You could, like, come in and say that you're the creative director or whatever.

DJ Sir Daniel: 00:20:07

I'm like, okay. With a straight face like, I'm the creative director. And then you have. Then you have Aubrey O'Day, who is the only white woman in this. In this mix.

And she. Of course, she's already a strong personality because she went head up with Diddy.

Jay Ray: 00:20:23

Yep.

DJ Sir Daniel: 00:20:24

You know, which is her claim to fame. And now she's here trying to, you know, she's trying to lay down some laws, too. But it's, you know, back to Dream Girls real quick.

e theaters and that was what,: 2006

Jay Ray: 00:20:39

2006, yes.

DJ Sir Daniel: 00:20:40

So, like, by that time, Beyonce was at the height of her superpowers.

Jay Ray: 00:20:46

Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes.

DJ Sir Daniel: 00:20:47

As a solo artist, she was untouchable. This was just taking her to another level.

Jay Ray: 00:20:53

Yep.

DJ Sir Daniel: 00:20:54

But to this day, she cannot escape the.

e moment in time in the early: 2000

Jay Ray: 00:21:12

Absolutely not. Like, it's another example of. So you have. You have these four members, right? To, you know, their first record, their second record was out of here.

And meanwhile, they were ascending when. Literally when the change happened. This is like, what single? Three or four from the record.

There's literally a roster change where two of the members are replaced by two completely different people. The COVID of the record had four people. By the time, what was it, say My Name came out, it was some. Two new girls that we had never seen before.

But once again, you have this situation where it's been reported. You had these two members. We're talking about latoya and latavia, who wanted to break free from the Matthew Knowles management.

So we have, once again, a man in control, once again wants to break free from the management and do something else. And it's like, no, we going. This thing going to stay the way this thing is going to stay, and we gonna figure it out this way.

And once again, Beyonce is put. So Diana Ross went to the Supremes, right? Diana Ross is put in this position where she has to bear the brunt of Diana Ross and the Supremes.

Berry Gordy made that change. Like, it wasn't. Diana Ross didn't roll up in the studio. Is like, we called Diana Ross of the Supremes now. No, like, that was a change.

And we go to Destiny's Child, and Beyonce is vilified. But this was literally a business decision that was bigger than she was at that point.

DJ Sir Daniel: 00:22:49

Absolutely. It was like. Like you said, Beyonce was vilified. Her father was demonized. Like, they were just the devil reincarnated right then and there, you know?

Yep, they were. However, that same. That drama catapulted them even, even further. Like, they became pop culture icons overnight. Like, they were.

They were made sketches on. On snl. Like, one of my favorite sketches on SNL is the Gemini's twin sketch featuring Maya Rudolph and Anna Gastire.

And what I loved about Destiny's Child and I loved about the trio that's behind me right there, the trio is that those girls. Those girls were able to laugh at themselves, and they actually showed up on that episode and made fun of themselves, which is.

Which I think was perfect. It was perfect, and it just solidified them as the superstars that they were. And to this day, people are still hungry for a Destiny chart reunion.

Jay Ray: 00:23:57

Absolutely. If. If. If Beyonce, Kelly, and Michelle said, we going out on tour, that's a wrap. First of all, them tickets is already sold.

We probably can't get one unless y'all cue points. Y'all gonna hook us. Hook me and Sir Daniel up so we could go and see Destiny's Child. Can we. Can we talk about something as well? Just a quick note.

So we talking about the Supreme. We talked about the Supremes. We're talking about Destiny's Child. I want us to.

As we dive into this more, these are groups that were pivotal to pop culture, like, important worldwide. These are not. We're not just talking about groups. We are talking about groups that literally change things in the way pop culture moved.

DJ Sir Daniel: 00:24:49

Absolutely. Because. And I think they.

If we're still talking about Destiny's Child, they came right at the moment where there was still physical copies being sold.

Jay Ray: 00:25:00

Yep.

DJ Sir Daniel: 00:25:00

So you still had three. You had black girls being put in the forefront, going to these. Performing everywhere. At the time, wearing. You know, they did something different.

They were wearing Tina Knowles fashions. Yeah. On the red carpets. When, you know, I'm pretty certain people were for forcing them. One of them to wear designer clothing. But they said, no.

You know, my mom is making. Is our stylist, and she's wear. You know, we're wearing these clothing. And there were some choices. Yes, there's some choices, definitely.

And the girls will say that themselves this day. But it still changed the game. Like, when you think about the fact that they went from four to three, it's still that power of three. It.

Like, Michelle, I think, is. Has been in the group longer than the original members of the group. You know what I'm saying? So Michelle. Michelle Williams is Destiny.

Jay Ray: 00:26:06

She is.

DJ Sir Daniel: 00:26:07

You can't take that away from her. But I want to bring up back to that number of three. Like, a lot of our favorite girl groups.

Like, we can't go on without talking about TLC, NOP3 members.

Jay Ray: 00:26:19

Yep.

DJ Sir Daniel: 00:26:19

When, unfortunately, when Left Eye died, it completely changed the group. They tried to make comebacks, and it just. It don't hit, like, they don't hit the same. You know what I'm saying? Without Lisa.

Jay Ray: 00:26:32

Yep.

DJ Sir Daniel: 00:26:33

SWV, Vanity 6, Apollonia 6. Jade.

Jay Ray: 00:26:39

Jade.

DJ Sir Daniel: 00:26:40

The sequence. Danny became like, all of these groups have phenomenal success as trios. Okay. So you know where I'm going with this.

Jay Ray: 00:26:50

I know exactly where you're going with this.

DJ Sir Daniel: 00:26:52

So my girls. Everybody knows. I mean, I'm a salt and pepper. Stan. Salt. Pepper. Yes. They started out as a duo, but when. So they had a. They had another dj.

She was brought on. And here's your. Here's where your point about outside influences can corrupt so Latoya Hansen was brought in to be the dj. Herbie brought her in.

So the guy, without consulting the girls, especially Cheryl Salt, who was his girlfriend at the time, who already, you know, was side eyeing him because he was already a skeezer. If you're going to talk about. Take it back to 86. He was already.

He was already out this season and you know, according to the movie, had a baby on her and everything. But anyway, so that didn't work out. Salt Officious Salt pretty much got her kicked out of the group.

Only reason we know she was in the group is because she's still on the album.

Jay Ray: 00:27:55

Yep.

DJ Sir Daniel: 00:27:57

However. But fast forward, they got Dee Dee, right? They got Deidre Spinderella as we know her.

And honestly, things really kicked into high gear when they got Deidre. It just, it just look, it hit different, as the kids say. It looked different.

It looked good with the three of them, with the jackets, the kente, the spandex. It was. It's just powerful. It took them to another level.

Jay Ray: 00:28:24

Yep, yep. It's. First of all, there's this idea of the look. There's this idea of the look and it all. When we go think back to the Supremes, right?

Those three women on stage doing this thing in, you know, in sequence. But women who represent different types of black woman, black womanhood, right.

They all have a distinct look, they have a distinct role and everybody has the one that they relate to. And Spinderella, the Spind spin, made that group. So for all intents and purposes, and we've talked about this offline, Salt and Peppa was a trio.

Kids like the pop. The group that we know as Salt and Peppa was a trio. Yes. You have Salt and you have Peppa out there today.

And they are performing at Salt and Peppa because they are named Salt and Peppa. But the group that we know had three people in it.

DJ Sir Daniel: 00:29:35

Three amigos, baby. It had three girls, like even. And I don't know if three is a magic number for everybody. Let's take En Vogue, for instance, right?

They started off as a quartet, baby, and they reached. They were successful and everything, but there was so much turmoil when it was four of them.

But when, you know, a certain member left, yeah, they became a trio and they've been flourishing ever since.

Jay Ray: 00:30:01

Ever since. I mean, Rona Bennett is once again. It's funny. So when we're talking about Michelle Williams, Rona Bennett is in vogue at this point.

She's been in the group longer. Way longer than all of them other Girls was in the group.

Like, she is like, so when you look at En Vogue, and I wrote this, at some point, I was like, when you look at En Vogue, I was like, really? Corona? Yes. We love the quartet. We love them. You absolutely.

But right now I'm like, if we look at the group in vogue, Invoke has been a Trio for like 15 years.

DJ Sir Daniel: 00:30:35

Yeah. And they tried, you know, they tried bringing dawn on board for Max, you know.

Jay Ray: 00:30:43

Yeah.

DJ Sir Daniel: 00:30:43

And Maxine for performances. That's right, Maxine. I almost forgot about Maxine. They brought.

They tried to bring them on for performance performances, but for whatever reasons, things just don't work out.

Jay Ray: 00:30:54

Yep.

DJ Sir Daniel: 00:30:55

So. But. Oh, so that brings me to a question I wanted to ask you. So do you think that groups that organically form, like, you know, your homegirls, we.

You be coming over, chilling at my house, and we. We start singing or rapping in. In my basement, and we perform, become a group?

s, early: 2000

Jay Ray: 00:31:31

I don't. You know, I. I don't think I can say that those groups have more of a shot.

I think what it really comes down to is what are the expectations that are set for the groups at the beginning and what. And who are the people that are part of the teams that are kind of helping to do all the stuff behind the scenes? I truly think that plays a role.

I think the. I think it comes down to do the folks get along? Do they. Do they enjoy each other? Because. Let's go back to Destiny's Child for a second.

That Michelle, Kelly and Beyonce get a. Like, you could tell they like each other. You literally could tell. When they are on stage together, it means so much to them.

That's why Beyonce brings. Can bring them out. And the crowd loses their minds because it means as much to them that she brings them out on stage because those is her girls.

DJ Sir Daniel: 00:32:32

Those are her sisters. Like the homecoming, the base Cella performance.

Jay Ray: 00:32:37

Yeah.

DJ Sir Daniel: 00:32:37

Like, people, you know, people lose their minds for that DC3 medley.

Jay Ray: 00:32:42

Yeah.

DJ Sir Daniel: 00:32:42

Super bowl performance. They lose their mind for a DC3 medley. It's just. It's just powerful. Even a few weeks ago, maybe like a month ago, you know, Kelly had her.

Just had her most recent child. And the girls were there just chilling in the kitchen, no makeup, just hanging out, holding the baby. The Internet lost it.

It's because those are their girls. Those are the. Those are the black girls that they grew up with. You know, this generation that grew up with Destiny's Child.

That's who they grew up with. And they love to see that.

Jay Ray: 00:33:14

Yep.

DJ Sir Daniel: 00:33:14

And like you said, if they said, tomorrow we're about to do this tour and give you a reunion, probably be sold out within 10 seconds.

Jay Ray: 00:33:23

Done. Done. And, and, and so I think, yeah, to answer your question, I really truly think it comes down to do the.

Do the folks who are in the group get along? Like, have they. Is there. Have they found a common ground? And I don't think that has anything to do with how they were formed.

I think it's a matter of what are those personalities doing what they need to do. And let me, let me. And let me. And. And I'm gonna add another layer. We've. Keith. So we're talking about male bands.

Keith Richards and Mick Jagger don't get along. They haven't gotten along for a really long time. But they can tour. They're not touring now because they're like, they like.

We're definitely not doing that. But there was a point in time where they would go out, but they on different buses, they on different things.

They're going to meet up for the rehearsal and then they're going to meet up for the show. And that's all you getting.

DJ Sir Daniel: 00:34:14

And that's it.

Jay Ray: 00:34:15

That's it. So I do think there's a let. There are some folks that we understand that this is a business arrangement and we can make it happen.

But once again, I think it really, truly comes down to personalities. It comes down to motives. That's when you get into the business arrangement. And it also comes down to what are the teams doing?

Are the teams working in unison? Because if the people behind the scenes are stirring that pot in a way that is pulling. Pulling folks apart, it can't work. And I think when I.

When we talk. When I think about. I think misogyny has a lot of influence over what ends up happening to women in groups.

Because I think it comes down to the way men tend to handle women. That becomes the problem.

DJ Sir Daniel: 00:35:06

Absolutely. And it's funny. So you mentioned business. And it made me think of. And roster changes. It made me think of one of my.

e this group was in the early: 2000

Jay Ray: 00:35:31

Yes.

DJ Sir Daniel: 00:35:32

And one of the most famous all woman funk bands out There, Climax attempted to reunite, except for one band member.

Jay Ray: 00:35:44

Cheryl Cool, who wasn't. No.

DJ Sir Daniel: 00:35:47

So here's what happened, if you don't know. Climax meeting in the ladies room, man size love. What's the other one? Phenomenal funk, 80s, big hair, all women, play all their own instruments.

They've been to. They've been rocking for a very long time. So to this day, there are two versions.

If you're a promoter and you want Climax, you have to specify which one you want, because there are two versions of Climax. There is this the Cheryl Cooley brand of Climax, and then there's the Bernadette Cooper brand of Climax. And that all happened.

You were talking about keeping goals in mind.

Jay Ray: 00:36:35

Yep.

DJ Sir Daniel: 00:36:35

Cheryl Cooley felt abandoned at the end and felt like, well, hey, since nobody else wants to be a ban anymore, I'm going to purchase the rights to this name Climax. And I'm going to. Because I'm a musician and I want to eat, I'm gonna go out and perform as Climax.

She never, however, she never considered the other ladies. And in lies the Rub, because they were like, you didn't have any right to purchase that on your own.

You weren't the creator of this group because it's well known. Bernadette Cooper absolutely was the creator of Climax. So it. And in that instance, you think about, well, who was.

Was there anybody telling Cheryl Cooley what to do? Or where does she get that kind of gumption to do that to the rest of the group?

But it goes back to what you said about, where are we as a team, as human beings in this group and our commonality, and do we respect each other?

Jay Ray: 00:37:35

And that's what I think, ultimately, that. I think the Climax situation is actually a unique, unique one in that probably if there were.

If I was in that whole situation, I'd be like, cheryl, you got to call the other girls. Like you. First of all, you got to call the other women. When I'm saying girls, I don't mean it in that way. I'm just thinking girl groups.

You got to call the other. You got to call them up and let them know that this is. Because the moment you copyright this, it changes things. You know what I'm saying?

There's ownership involved, and I would advise to make that call. You know what I'm saying? But I'm also not a shrewd businessman who's like, no, grab it all and all of that. Yeah. But it's funny that.

Real quick, so over there, Madame X was a group formed by Bernadette Cooper. And so I put that. I put my girl groups all around. So I have jj, Fat and all of that.

But, yeah, Madame X was formed by Bernadette Cooper and had one of my favorite 80s tracks and just. Just that type of girl. But anyway, I wished that climax episode was hard because you had all these women, and then they brought Cheryl.

Cheryl had to come in reluctantly to this experience where you have all the other members who are like, girl, why'd you do this to us?

DJ Sir Daniel: 00:38:57

Yeah. And it was. It was very emotional.

Jay Ray: 00:39:00

It was.

DJ Sir Daniel: 00:39:01

You could tell that it was. It was beyond money. It was. It was all about a trust issue. It was like, you know, we came up from the mud. Like, we.

We would practice for hours together. We. We came up in the mud, as the kids like to say, and built this group together.

Jay Ray: 00:39:18

Yep.

DJ Sir Daniel: 00:39:19

And the fact that after all of these years together, you couldn't consider us like, Bernadette couldn't even look at her. She didn't even want to be in the room with her. And the other ladies, the other ladies were in tears because even though they didn't want she.

They didn't want her to perform with them, they still reached out and hugged her because there's still a family aspect there. There was still love there. If you look at all the girl groups that have, you know, broken up and come back together, there is still.

If they weren't formed, if they weren't put on television, like, I'm making the band, if they were actual friends at one point, you will see that it. That love was still there and sometimes may bring them back together.

Now, what you have never seen, and I'm thinking about this, and I think about it, well, there were no cameras during the Kentucky Fried Chicken, the KFC incident. But what you have never seen, if you.

You have never seen a girl group get on a radio show and brawl, like, have a little literal fisticuffs like Drew Hill did. And they. And no, but nobody ever really talks about that. Like, they talk about the groups, the girl groups disbanding.

And here you got Drew Hill, these big grown Negroes fighting in the studio all the way.

Jay Ray: 00:40:34

Fighting all the way.

DJ Sir Daniel: 00:40:37

Just got. They had just gotten back together that same day.

Jay Ray: 00:40:40

You know, it's. It's. Once again, we come back to the way. So we come back to your original question around how society treats women views and this. So the dudes.

So they could fight all day. They could fight. But we are not going to get on Media takeout and on tmz and, well, it's so and so's fault that this happened.

And you gotta, you know, you know, why you. She must have said something or whatever. We don't do that.

DJ Sir Daniel: 00:41:16

Even though we do all know that Cisco is the Beyonce of. I mean, let's just be, you know, Cisco is the Beyonce of Drew Hill.

Jay Ray: 00:41:25

And he made the Thong song, which is. So remember how big that song was? As I digress.

DJ Sir Daniel: 00:41:32

Huge. Very costly. Very costly to them. Didn't make a lot of money.

Very costly, but catapulted him into iconic status and, and bringing up labels, being that, bringing that up, that it was costly to make that song right long song. The video was expensive. The, the somebody came in and said, oh, this is sample.

Jay Ray: 00:41:54

Yeah.

DJ Sir Daniel: 00:41:55

Oh, you're gonna pay for that. So you gotta. On the back end. That cost them money.

Record labels to this day still like to use the excuse that girl groups are a headache because they're too expensive. Meaning, meaning hair, wardrobe, makeup, they're saying that it's, it's not cost effective because they're expensive.

But if we look back in, back in the days, a lot of these, you know, look at tlc. Look at tlc.

Those are, those are hangs, those are Hanes T shirts that they put band aids on, they scribble record, they scribble markers on them, put eye paint under their eyes. You know, they may have had some cross color pants that might, might have cost them maybe, what, 20 bucks a piece.

But do no stylists come up with that? But, but they, then they turned around and made it a trend.

Jay Ray: 00:42:57

Right? That's what I, that's why I say that's some bull.

Because if you just watched the Tina Turner documentary, Tina was like, baby, I was doing my hair, I was doing the choreography, I was doing the makeup. I was doing all of my own stuff. Diana Ross has talked, Chaka Khan has talked about it.

Like, all of these women are really good at doing their own makeup because they didn't have no, they didn't have nobody to do that stuff. So this idea that the women are more expensive thing, I, I truly, once again, it's a cop out. I see it as, I see it as misogyny showing up.

Because the truth is, if we, if we allow these folks to truly do what it is that they do, because they, they could figure their lookout, they could do, you might have somebody guiding, but they can figure this thing out. It ain't costing you no. It ain't costing you no more than what these dudes have to be costing you. It ain't costing you no more. I don't believe.

DJ Sir Daniel: 00:44:01

Because today everybody has a stylist. Like, I mean, let's just face it, everything is. Is highly stylized.

Jay Ray: 00:44:09

Yep.

DJ Sir Daniel: 00:44:10

So, yes, that is a built in cost for everybody now. So I don't think that like you said, it is a cop out.

But I also see where, if you notice a lot, once these young ladies turn 25, you know, that's when people start, you know, looking like, how much longer do we have on the clock for you? And don't let them have a baby.

Jay Ray: 00:44:32

Oh, my God. These we set. We set these. We set the society and sets this up to not work. So DJ Serdeo, it goes back to your original question. Is it us?

And I truly do. What I keep hearing is that it is. All the messed up stuff in society that we do to women impacts all. It comes into these groups like it's baked in.

And there is no way in the world. I will never forget watching women perform amazingly on stage. You have. I remember Vanessa Williams working through it.

I remember Brandy working through it. So many women I remember working through. So it's not. What are you saying? What are you saying? It doesn't change anything.

DJ Sir Daniel: 00:45:27

It's so. Wow. One of the best performances of on.

In rap history to me on Showtime at the Apollo is when Moni Love came out like she was damn near what, seven to eight months pregnant. Huge.

Jay Ray: 00:45:43

Yep.

DJ Sir Daniel: 00:45:43

And wrapping her ass off like Moni in the middle, where she at, she pointed to her belly, like right here. I'm pregnant as hell, but I'm out here rocking because I have to and because I want to.

Jay Ray: 00:45:54

That's what I do this my job. Like I'm here. I'm gonna do their. They gonna do their job just like everybody else do their job. So they. We do this stuff. And I don't like.

I don't like it. And you know, that came up. That came up in the encore through some of the. Through.

Through a couple of the women, the twins that were there talking about age and like, there's no whatever, whatever. And I'm like, baby, what does any of that stuff matter?

DJ Sir Daniel: 00:46:22

But see how they. They do it to themselves. They do it to women. Do it to each other. Yeah, do it.

No pun intended because you're talking about Cherish and I just said do it.

Jay Ray: 00:46:32

But anyway.

DJ Sir Daniel: 00:46:34

But yeah, I. I caught. I caught that too from the very first episode because the. The young ladies, the twins, Farah and on, I believe their names.

I can't remember their name specifically, but they were. They are currently in the industry, they have currently written for artists that are out there.

So I guess they feel entitled to make these opinions about what's hot and what's not. Their main criticism of a lot of the members of the house is that, oh, I was hoping for more people.

Jay Ray: 00:47:10

Under 40 and, and, and, And I, I. And it. Once again, it's. We have done, I think, a disservice. This is what we.

Fighting against and hopefully for folks, folks who are watching cue points, listen to what we are saying. There is no reason we are missing out on some tremendous. I know we're missing out on tremendous talent that could be phenomenal in.

In music as groups, as people who are able to come together and make something happen because it will make everybody shine in. In more of a way. And I think we're missing out on that. And I think it's. This is all because of. I think it's.

I think it's misogyny, and I think it just seeps into everything.

DJ Sir Daniel: 00:48:01

It absolutely does. Like, we're. And if we even go beyond just the girl groups, Black music itself, we tend. We tend to want to throw it away.

Like, we tend to want to throw anything. Anything that's older than, you know, than a year or two. We've gotten to this point where it's expired.

But there's just so much wealth and richness in the music that came before.

Jay Ray: 00:48:29

Yeah.

DJ Sir Daniel: 00:48:30

And there's those people that have, you know, given blood, sweat and tears to perform for you. And I really do think that, like you said, this is why we do cue points. Points is because we want to educate. We want to inform you.

All of these people say.

We want to say their names, basically, and let people know that we do revere and respect them and appreciate all that they've contributed to the culture.

Jay Ray: 00:48:54

Yes.

DJ Sir Daniel: 00:48:55

So. And before we wrap up, I would like to. I would like to. To congratulate a black woman here in Atlanta. And congratulate her. She's a local legend.

I'm talking about none other than Melissa Alexander, also known as Phyllis Iller.

Jay Ray: 00:49:16

She's so dope.

DJ Sir Daniel: 00:49:17

She's.

She's a photographer, videographer, storyteller, and she has been tapped to create some stunning visuals for the upcoming National Museum of African American Music, Celebration of Legends, which actually starts streaming today, same time, probably after our show. You can catch it live and we'll put in the chat. We'll drop a link on how you can catch it. But please make sure you check that out.

Check out Phyllis Eller and her work. You know, support a Black woman.

Jay Ray: 00:49:55

Yes.

DJ Sir Daniel: 00:49:55

If you need. If you're in the Atlanta area and you need some photography, you know, please support a black woman and let her, you know, let her rock.

Jay Ray: 00:50:02

Yes. No. You would be making the best choice ever. Just. Just incredibly brilliant and creative. And congratulations. I saw that this.

I think it was this week, and I was just like, yeah, that makes sense. Absolutely.

DJ Sir Daniel: 00:50:18

Makes total sense. And, yeah, keep your eye on that. There may be some surprises in there that you.

Jay Ray: 00:50:25

There might be some surprises.

DJ Sir Daniel: 00:50:28

There might be some surprises that you see in the individuals that she's come up with, but. J. Ray, you got anything else before we wrap up?

Jay Ray: 00:50:36

You know, I. I think what. The only thing I want to leave everybody with is one. I have a question for the folks who are watching. What are some.

Who are some of your favorite girl groups? And are there any groups on the Independence seen that are kind of doing things regionally?

Because we all know we live in cities and, you know, there's groups that are local. So are there any folks that you know of? Because we definitely want to check them out and see what's going on.

Because we girls, little girls, and little boys need to see girl groups. I truly believe it's really, really important. Like, they need to be able to see them on stage.

Little girls, folks, they need to be able to see all of this brilliance and diversity. And I do think that it is missing. I was listening to the radio this past week, and a Jade song came. So it was Don't Walk Away and we was jamming.

And when the DJ came back, he was like, oh, my God, it was so great to hear Jade because we don't have girl groups anymore. And I'm like, that don't make sense.

DJ Sir Daniel: 00:51:50

Representation matters. Representation matters. And on that note, remember, kids, in this life, you can always pick up the needle or you can let the music play.

The choice is yours. Thank you for joining us on Cue Points.

Jay Ray: 00:52:06

Peace, everybody.