Triple Threat Queens: Debbie Allen, Phylicia Rashad & Sheryl Lee Ralph’s Musical Legacy

DJ Sir Daniel: 00:00:00

Greetings and welcome to another episode of Queue Points Podcast. I am DJ Sir Daniel and my.

Jay Ray: 00:00:22

Name is Jay Ray, sometimes known by my government as Johnny Ray Kornegay III and Sir Daniel, we are going to talk about the Triple Threat girls. Few of them.

DJ Sir Daniel: 00:00:33

That's right. Let me find my lights first, Jay Ray, because, well, first let you know, before we got to this topic, there's something really funny happened.

It just so happens that we were speaking about this. We were going to talk about this person, and then this thing happened. J.

Ray, Felicia Rashad was trending the other day due to the recent NPR tiny desk performance of Tedra Moses, who.

Jay Ray: 00:01:01

Shout out to Tedra Moses.

DJ Sir Daniel: 00:01:03

Tedra Moses. Still the baddest, complex simplicity, classic.

Jay Ray: 00:01:09

Okay?

DJ Sir Daniel: 00:01:09

Classic classique. And she did bear a striking resemblance to the veteran stage and screen actress. She actually had. Felicia Rashad trending. Jay Ray, that was hilarious.

But it's just, you know, Felicia was. That was that girl Felicia Rashad, or at that time, Felicia Allen, you know, was regarded by many of her peers as a triple threat, which was a lot.

A lot of the girls back then. You had to be.

Jay Ray: 00:01:42

You had to be.

DJ Sir Daniel: 00:01:43

You had to be in, like, the 70s and the early 80s, if you were. You had to have all the talents in your bag if you were going to make it big. Like, if you were.

You had to be adept at singing, you had to be adept at dancing and acting. You would be known as a triple threat.

Jay Ray: 00:02:02

Yes.

DJ Sir Daniel: 00:02:03

You know who's a perfectly perfect example of that? Vanessa Williams.

Jay Ray: 00:02:07

Oh, yeah, absolutely. Shout out to Vanessa, too, who's on stage in London in the Devil Wears Prada. But, yeah, perfect example of the triple threat.

You had to be able to do it.

DJ Sir Daniel: 00:02:17

All right. But of course, Vanessa Williams was not the only one. Let's just run it down the line. We got three divas that we want to talk about on this episode.

Let's start with Big. Is she the big sister?

Jay Ray: 00:02:30

No, no, she's the little. She's the little sister.

DJ Sir Daniel: 00:02:32

She's a little sister. Okay.

Jay Ray: 00:02:34

But she is the big personality of the little sister.

DJ Sir Daniel: 00:02:37

As my. As my grandmother, who is this big.

Jay Ray: 00:02:41

Yes.

DJ Sir Daniel: 00:02:41

Used to say, small acts cuts down a big tree.

Jay Ray: 00:02:44

Yes. Yes.

DJ Sir Daniel: 00:02:45

Every single time. So Debbie Allen, famously known for directing his shows like Grey's Anatomy.

Jay Ray: 00:02:51

Yeah.

DJ Sir Daniel: 00:02:52

And A Different World, and others, made her mark on Broadway in Hitch in hit shows like Sweet Chariot, Sweet Chariot, Sweet Charity, and West side Story. And she also went on to play Lydia Grant.

Jay Ray: 00:03:07

She sure did.

DJ Sir Daniel: 00:03:08

In the iconic movie and television show Fame.

Jay Ray: 00:03:12

Sir Daniel, what does she have to say, what is she? What did you have to do?

DJ Sir Daniel: 00:03:17

If you want fame, fame costs. And right here is where you start paying in sweats.

Jay Ray: 00:03:26

Yes.

DJ Sir Daniel: 00:03:27

Okay, so you know that. I mean, you talk about a line that lives rent free in my head till this day. And that show came out in, like, what, 82?

Jay Ray: 00:03:38

Yeah, yeah.

DJ Sir Daniel: 00:03:40

To this day. To this day. And so, you know, Debbie Allen was like, I said, she conquered Broadway. She conquered television.

She also went and dropped the album on us.

Jay Ray: 00:03:53

Special look, was released in: 1989

Norm Nixon, her husband, was a big executive in sports because he, you know, former basketball player, and he negotiated this deal and executive produced this album. So MCA Records, Debbie Allen was like, I'm going. She was already doing all the things. She was directing A Different World.

Like, that was her big gig at the time. And Norm was like, hey, let's do a record. And so Debbie is like, all right, let me hit. Let me get in the studio and let me do an album. Right?

Let me tell you something, though, about Special look as a record. I have a theory. So here's my theory about this album, Sir Daniel.

My theory about this album is Special look, if it was released, like, a year and a half prior, would have been a hit. I feel like the record sits in, like, a late 87, 88 bag, right before New Jack Swing hit and took over. Everything is where Special look sits.

But Special look came in 89, when New Jack Swing had already happened. Hip hop has taken over the world. R B sounds really different. Right? So this album would have competed with forever. Your girl in 88, right.

Special look would have been Pebbles. All of that Special look would have been right there fighting with those girls. But now Special look is competing with those girls and new girls.

Right? So anyway, but what's dope about this record is Kashif produces several joints on this record. Rock Me Steady. There's like, bops on Special Look.

So all the Kashif joints are bops. So names like Kashif, names like Gerald Albright are all over Special Looks.

She did have some really top folks working with her to bring this album together. Um, is. Is Debbie Allen the best vocalist in the world?

No, but she was right there with what the girls was doing at the time and could hold her own and, to her point, could do other things. Before I read a quote from Debbie Allen, Sir Daniel, I do want to make a quick note. You know who was a tech on this record.

Larry Smith was a tech on one of the songs on this album and which it was Love Club, which is a bop produced by Kashif, written by Alex Brown, Brian Morgan, not 90s Brian Morgan. Other Brian Morgan, Kasheeth and Shelley Morgan. But yeah, Love Club also features Morgan Morgan. Exactly.

tant engineer on this song in: 1981

DJ Sir Daniel: 00:07:21

And we gonna have, we're gonna talk about Mr. Larry Smith in another episode.

Jay Ray: 00:07:25

ebbie Allen was everywhere in: 1989

But so here is what Debbie Allen had to say about this release. So this is a quote from Ebony. Quote. Yes, Debbie Allen is tough, but in a most feminine way.

And she's not a way to take on the fancy step and pop divas of the new generation.

With the release of her first LP and music video special look, which Debbie Allen directed as a note, she aims to show Paula Abdul and Janet Jackson a few new moves. Here's what Debbie said.

DJ Sir Daniel: 00:08:11

Ooh.

Jay Ray: 00:08:12

Debbie said visuals are so important now in the music industry, especially in video, she says, adding that many young singers will not succeed because they don't make a good impression on camera or they simply can't dance. Neither is a problem for Allen, who says, I am visual, honey. I am ready to go on the road now and open for Guy or Bobby Brown.

She says in her charismatic, animated manner. Debbie Allen was ready for the girls.

DJ Sir Daniel: 00:08:40

And I can see, I can see her now, just, you know, all kinds of flair. And while she's talking, she's doing high kicks. And you know, and what's so funny is that Janet and Paula were on Fame.

Jay Ray: 00:08:56

Yes.

DJ Sir Daniel: 00:08:57

And I'm sure they all know each other. They all knew each other at that time. And of course, Paula Abdul went on to be forever your girl. So they really were battling for that spot.

Jay Ray: 00:09:11

Yes.

DJ Sir Daniel: 00:09:12

And I completely forgot about that. Thank you for reminding us of how Paula Abdul probably just inched Debbie Allen out by a mile.

Jay Ray: 00:09:22

Literally. Debbie Allen would have been right there in the mix had this record dropped a year prior.

DJ Sir Daniel: 00:09:32

So you mentioned the video. This is in that video. I'm not going to lie. That video, I remember the first time I saw it on video Music box Jay Ray. I'm not going to lie.

I was cracking up at this video first because my 13 year old ears kept in the song I kept hearing, is she saying, boosh bush. This is what I'm hearing right then, you know, and, you know, your friends, my friend Shawana Scott and I, we were like, is she saying bull ish?

Jay Ray: 00:10:12

Right.

DJ Sir Daniel: 00:10:13

And it sounds like she's saying bull ish. Bullish. So immediately I am cracking up. Like, is she cursing?

Jay Ray: 00:10:23

Right.

DJ Sir Daniel: 00:10:23

This is Debbie Allen. I'm not expecting her to curse. And then the video is High Camp. J.J. Jay Ray. It is High camp. It features Tamac, the Last Dragon.

Jay Ray: 00:10:37

Yes.

DJ Sir Daniel: 00:10:37

And it's. Of course, it's a martial arts theme video where she's playing a ninja and they're trying.

And she and Tamac are joining forces to beat some evil kung fu underlord and rescue somebody. And, you know, and flirting at the same time. There's a lot of high kicks and a lot of soldier moves and. And throwing your neck back. And it was.

It was hilarious to me. And I think it was funny to me because like you said at that point in 89, hip hop is already made such a huge impression on us.

Jay Ray: 00:11:18

Yes.

DJ Sir Daniel: 00:11:19

That we're not used to Broadway antics.

Jay Ray: 00:11:23

Yes.

DJ Sir Daniel: 00:11:24

In music videos anymore. We're kind of. It's kind of calmed down. There's a grittier edge to things. And, you know, Debbie Allen is like, 5, 6, 7, 8.

And Potter Beren, you know, and kickball change, you know, is giving you. And giving you all these. You know, all of that. Which we love her for. Absolutely love her for. But God bless you. 5, 6, 7, 8. You know.

But, J, you know, one thing you didn't mention, she does a duet with her sister on this album.

Jay Ray: 00:12:01

Sure does. And. Yeah. And. And to that.

DJ Sir Daniel: 00:12:06

More than a man.

Jay Ray: 00:12:07

More, baby, listen. And we forget. Because Phylicia Rashad became Claire Huxtable.

Like, literally, we forgot for a smooth decade that Phylicia Rashad existed in kind of this Broadway music world in addition to her TV career. And so this album reminded us real quick, like, oh, Phylicia Rashad sings, too. Because that was the thing. Debbie wanted to be the dancer.

Felicia wanted to be the singer. And I think they have a brother, and the brother wanted to do something, too. But so the whole. The whole clan is talented, but Mama's a poet.

Mama's a poet. Right. So it's just, like, talent everywhere. So Phylicia Rashad. And that's the thing.

So by this time, we forgot that Phylicia Rashad had had a record, which I did not know about until I was good and grown because the record was not a hit. But yet Phylicia Rashad had actually had an entire album.

DJ Sir Daniel: 00:13:13

So this is gonna be important. Felicia Allen, at the time, like Jay Ray said, was doing a stint on Broadway and she was performing in the Wiz.

But she was also the understudy on Dreamgirls. Yes, that's for one Sheryl Lee Ralph. Keep that in mind. I mean, the circle is so small, right? It's so small.

But, yeah, like you said, Jay Ray, she went on to become Claire Huxtable. And when she was Claire Huxtable, that was it.

Jay Ray: 00:13:47

Yeah.

DJ Sir Daniel: 00:13:49

So, Jay Ray, you know, we've recently had a string of bad weather. And you know who I kept thinking about, especially on the snow days?

I kept thinking about parents. I can't imagine being a parent and having to come up with things like to. To occupy your children's time and.

But at the same time, they're missing school, so you want it to be a productive time as well. Luckily, luckily for all our parents out there, we have a great friend by the name of Penny. I'm talking about what's Poppin Penny?

is coming out this spring of: 2020

Jay Ray: 00:14:30

That's right, DJ Sir Daniel. So it is the goal to have 1,000 subscribers on the what's Poppin Penny? YouTube page.

So parents, caregivers, teachers, trusted adults, if you can hear the sound of our voices, go on over to YouTube and subscribe to what's Poppin Penny so that your brownstone buddies can check out the animated version of the show when it is released this spring.

DJ Sir Daniel: 00:14:56

It doesn't matter.

Even if you're already subscribed and listening to the show on Apple, Spotify, or wherever you listen to your favorite podcast, you gotta go over to YouTube and hit that subscription button. Subscribe. Subscribe. Subscribe.

Jay Ray: 00:15:12

Peace.

DJ Sir Daniel: 00:15:13

Peace. Josephine Superstar.

osephine Superstar debuted in: 1978

Jay Ray: 00:15:37

Kiss was on that. Yeah, we did a show on Spinning Gold. If you. If you check out our Donna Summer. Donna Summer show.

We talk a little bit about that docu film Spinning Gold. We're not recommending it. We're just saying we talked about Neil Pop. Be very clear. We talked about. But Neil Bogart.

That's the house that Neil Bogart built. And Casablanca Record still exists today, but was a huge label famous for its disco and its rock and roll back in the 70s.

And yeah, her husband at the time, Victor Willis, was the Lead singer of the Village People, which was essentially one of the biggest acts on the label. As though Victor wielded a lot of power and led to Josephine co writing in.

DJ Sir Daniel: 00:16:28

Yeah, co writing and producing this album, which was a disco album telling the story of Josephine Baker, who is the first international black superstar. So imagine, you know, you know, when you think about it, I think that's a dope concept, actually, to. To take that on.

It was probably ahead of its time.

Jay Ray: 00:16:52

That is my feeling about this record. I don't think. I don't think Josephine Superstar is a good album. Right. But I think to your point, I think it was ahead of its time.

And first of all, I love the idea that this, this, these black folks, Victor Willis and Felicia Allen, said we are going to use our moment to lift up a black superstar and make an album about that. I think that that right there deserves props like no other, because they could have done anything else, right?

They could have just leaned into doing Run of the Mill disco Records at the time, but they said, no, we're going to do this story. My guess is that Victor wanted this to be an actual Broadway show.

I think they were just trying out this idea of making this album so that Phylicia could bring Josephine Superstar to the Broadway stage. It just seems. It literally just seems like it was written like a Broadway show that happened to be an album. I don't know.

DJ Sir Daniel: 00:18:05

You know what?

That actually makes sense because if we look at these record labels that they were on, they weren't huge record labels, but they had very powerful people behind them. Because it's so funny you bring up wanting to turn this into a play. Like I said earlier, Felicia Allen.

Allen, at the time was the understudy on Dreamgirls to one Cheryl Lee Ralph, famously known for playing Dina in Dreamgirls, which is, of course, the role of all roles. Yes. And as history tells it, Felicia never got the shot.

She never got a chance to get on because Cheryl was like, oh, no, I'm playing every night of this. No, I'm sorry, you will be my understudy. Just keep studying.

Jay Ray: 00:18:55

I'mma be here.

DJ Sir Daniel: 00:18:56

I'm going to be here. And why not? Because she is the incomparable Sheryl Lee Ralph, who, like I said, we all know from Dream Girls, she also. And she won a ton.

She got a Tony nomination for that role.

And we, of course, know her from movies like Sister Act 2, where she famously tries to keep one Lauryn Hill from going to singing in the competition because singing don't make no money. And you know, she's of course done television like Designing Women and of course everybody knows her from Moesha.

But can I just really talk really quick about two camp classics that Shirley Rouse starting, you know, and you know, I love camp. So in the 80s, one of Cheryl's first, well, not first TV shows, but one of her big break shows was a small show called It's a Living.

Jay Ray: 00:19:53

I really remember that show. Baby it's a Living was a thing.

DJ Sir Daniel: 00:19:59

That intro alone, we keep talking about song, sitcom, television, song intros and whatnot.

It's a Living had one of the best, best intros to me because it was a, it was a Broadway number in itself and it was talking about, you know, trying to make it It's a Living. But yeah, they were cocktail waitresses at a high rise restaurant. One of those restaurant in the skies type of things.

Do you all remember in early: 1991

Morris Day starred in a very short lived sitcom called New Attitude.

Jay Ray: 00:20:58

I thought about that show, wasn't it the beauty salon show? Cuz Phyllis Stickney was doing her Phyllis Stickney stick.

DJ Sir Daniel: 00:21:07

Yes, they own the salon together. And Mor Day was a hair stylist. But he of course was a womanizing hair stylist. Yeah, very swab. But he was also singing on the side.

And of course they were, you know, the two plucky, plucky young women trying to keep their beauty shop afloat. And it's all kinds of hilarity ensues. So you can find clips of new attitude on YouTube. So all my 90s sitcom folks, go ahead and check that out.

Jay Ray: 00:21:36

Yes.

DJ Sir Daniel: 00:21:37

All right, so let's get to the music.

Jay Ray: 00:21:38

Yes.

DJ Sir Daniel: 00:21:39

Like we were saying. So Shirley Ralph was signed to a record label called. So here's the thing.

Jay Ray: 00:21:47

Yeah.

DJ Sir Daniel: 00:21:48

This label had several different names because in different countries it was different record labels. Like this one says Beatbox Records.

Jay Ray: 00:21:56

Yeah.

DJ Sir Daniel: 00:21:57

Here's a. A sample of. This is one of the 12 inches that it was released on.

Jay Ray: 00:22:03

Hold on, let's talk about this. Put that cover back up so y'all can't see this. So I'm gonna describe what Sir Daniel is showing the people. Shirley Ralph has got on this zebra dress.

She got that Angela Wimbush hairdo. She is sharp. Okay.

DJ Sir Daniel: 00:22:19

On this cover, I mean it's so 80s and I love everything about it. But the record label was actually own a guy Bernstein. That's it.

And it was the it was the New York music company owned by Sid Bernstein, who was a mover and shaker in Hollywood.

Jay Ray: 00:22:41

Yep.

DJ Sir Daniel: 00:22:42

bum was called in the evening: 1984

In the Evening, the Real Me Comes Alive. And I have that 12 inch around here somewhere. Somewhere. But that is a bop, Jay Ray.

Jay Ray: 00:23:07

Listen, it is a total bop. So Sheryl Lee Ralph famously has talked about, you know, how she had to kind of move, shake and hustle to make things happen in Hollywood.

As a dark skinned black woman, it was not going to be easy for her. Right. To do what she needed to do. So Sid Bernstein had this label, it was like 18 months old by the time that Shirley Ralph had signed to it.

Trevor Lawrence, who produced this Makes perfect sense. Who produced the Pointer Sisters, produced this album. And so when you listen to this album, it sound like the Pointer Sisters, right?

Yep, Very much in that vein. But here is what really got Shirley Ralph signed. She had been on this show that I can't remember, but I looked it up. Code Name Foxfire.

So Sheryl Lee Ralph had been on this show called Code Name Foxfire. She was like, she had a breakout role and it was showing people who she was. Right. Her manager got her to perform one of the songs on the show.

om Billboard from February of: 1985

It said, quote, while it would be nice to liken her story to the rags to riches theme of Dreamgirls, Ralph reveals none of the fumbling innocence of the stage productions native starlets reveals none of the fumbling innocence of the stage production's native starlets. Since she manages all facets of her career, she was like doing all the moving parts of things, right?

managing herself in the early: 1980

Got herself on a show, got herself signed to a record deal, got herself an album released.

DJ Sir Daniel: 00:25:05

That's crazy. And I was looking through the, through the credits of the album and I see Porter and Hayes show up.

That's Isaac Hayes and David Porter wrote a song on there. And Also Robert Neville, Mr. C'est la vie was featured, is a featured producer on the album as well. So this chunk of 80s nostalgia means a lot to me.

And it's so funny. I became familiar with the song in the most unlikely places.

J Ray, where there was a variety slash drag show here in Atlanta, famously called the Stars of the Century show that went on. It's probably has gone on for over 20 years now.

But there was a point in the show, Jay Ray, at the end of the show, they would play in the evening as their. As their vamp, their closing vamp rollout, because that's when they would introduce all the cast members.

And I just remember sitting there thinking, what is this song? And in the evening, the real me comes alive. And then come to find out it's Sheryl Lee Ralph, after all these years, who has. Is.

Has made a true renaissance of her life, is high atop the TV ratings again in Abbott Elementary. And it's like, you can't. You can't write a career out. You can't come up with this stuff on your own.

That's truly a guided career for someone like that to start off, you know, on Broadway and have these, you know, these. These sparks here and there in your career. And I can only imagine when you, as a creative, I think you kind of wish and hope for that one big thing.

Jay Ray: 00:26:54

Yeah.

DJ Sir Daniel: 00:26:54

But then sometimes it doesn't happen like that. It's not like that one big thing that just takes you over the top. It's these, what I call breadcrumbs. The universe giving you breadcrumbs and.

And doing things here and there. Here's, you know, here's Moesha. You'll be on that for five years.

Jay Ray: 00:27:10

Yes.

DJ Sir Daniel: 00:27:10

And you'll be. And people will know you forever for that. Here's Sister Act 2.

Jay Ray: 00:27:15

Yes.

DJ Sir Daniel: 00:27:15

Here's the mighty Quinn. You know, where you're. When you're playing with Denzel Washington, your first film role, you know, so.

And then, you know, these moments where you have two podcasters digging up old 12 inches with you on the COVID like this. That's an amazing career, man.

Jay Ray: 00:27:34

You. I firmly believe. And that's why I think it's really important. We just have to lean into our gifts and do the work.

At the end of the day, it would be nice if there was some big thing that kind of thrust us into, like, this larger spotlight or whatever. But at the end of the day, I think the ultimate goal is you get to live and work doing the things that you love.

And what I think about all of these women is that they've been living and working doing the things that they love. And it just so happened that one of the things that they did was make records.

And of these three people, Shirley Ralph is the unique one in that she has, like, a Second album. I think she did a Christmas record a few years ago, so she has the distinction of being like, no, I have not one. I have two releases. So.

But listen, all of the TV and Broadway girls wanted an album. It was part of the deal. And I'm so happy that we got a chance to kind of celebrate these three women.

Oh, by the way, of these three albums, Special look still goes up. I actually, in preparing for this, I found some joints on special look. I'm like, that's going into the rotation. I'm a player that's going.

DJ Sir Daniel: 00:28:52

You know what? I was listening back to it. I was like, this is not a bad album either. It's really. It's not that bad at all. And so shout out to them.

Shout out to the divas.

Jay Ray: 00:29:03

Yes.

DJ Sir Daniel: 00:29:05

Of Stage, screen and Records. This has been Queue Points. Jay Ray, let the people know one more time how they can continue following us and get more great content like this.

Jay Ray: 00:29:16

Absolutely, y'all. So if you can see our faces, if you can hear our voices, thank you so much. We appreciate it. Hit the subscribe button.

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Last but not least, visit our website@qpoints.com where you can watch over old shows. You can read all about the history of Queue Points and do all types of stuff over there. So visit us at our website, y'all. We appreciate y'all.

We love y'all.

DJ Sir Daniel: 00:30:04

And five, six, seven, eight. Big finish. And what do I always say? In this life, you have a choice. You can either pick up the needle or you can let the record play.

I am DJ Sir Daniel.

Jay Ray: 00:30:19

I am Jay Ray, y'all.

DJ Sir Daniel: 00:30:21

Peace. And this is. This has been Queue Points podcast. Dropping the needle on black music history. We will see you on the next go round. Oh.