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Episode 236

Sly Stone, D'Angelo & the Myth of Black Genius

DJ Sir Daniel and Jay Ray use the Hulu documentary on Sly Stone as a jumping-off point to examine the label of "Black genius" and what it costs the artists who carry it. The conversation moves from Sly Stone's songwriting credit on "Somebody to Love" and D'Angelo's silent on-camera appearance to the real-world controversy around Lil Baby's name surfacing in an Atlanta Police Department shooting investigation. Along the way they weigh whether visibility and talent create an obligation to represent or uplift the Black community, using Jay-Z, Beyoncé, Stevie Wonder, Prince, and Michael Jackson as reference points.

The Breakdown

  • Sly Stone's documentary and the "Black genius" question — how Ahmir "Questlove" Thompson's film reframes genius as both a gift and a burden, and what D'Angelo's brief, wordless cameo signals about visibility and exhaustion.
  • The Lil Baby/Atlanta Police Department controversy — how a rap video shoot in rival gang territory got tied to a real shooting, and what that reveals about the outsized influence assigned to Black celebrities.
  • Genius versus celebrity — why the hosts argue the term "genius" has been diluted into a marketing label, and how that dilution puts pressure on young people looking for role models.
  • The financial and emotional cost of being labeled "Black genius" — including Sly Stone's real-life clash over a $100,000 community demand, and how expectations placed on Jay-Z and Beyoncé echo the "talented tenth" framework from the Civil Rights era.

Chapter Markers

00:00 Disclaimer

00:19 Intro Theme

00:36 The Lil Baby / Atlanta Police Department Story: Setting the Stage

03:36 The Sly Stone Documentary Sparks the Question: What Is Black Genius?

09:48 Transition

09:54 Genius vs. Celebrity: How the Term Gets Watered Down

11:23 The Danger of Mislabeling: Young People, Role Models & Influence

13:43 Everyone Has a Genius — But What Does It Cost?

15:38 Excusing Bad Behavior Under the Label of Genius

18:30 Is It Fair to Expect Black Genius to Represent Us All?

21:19 Transition

21:26 Unreasonable Expectations & The Ivory Prison of Black Genius

24:08 Community Responds: Responsibility to Musicianship

28:14 Quick Transition

28:15 The Bar for Genius Was Once Very High — And the Cost of Coveting Gifts

31:20 Brilliance Over Genius: Audience Takeaways & Closing Thoughts

33:08 Outro Theme

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#BlackMusicHistory #SlyStone #DAngelo #LilBaby #BlackGenius

Transcript
Jay Ray:

What's up, y'all?

Jay Ray:

Today we're dropping one of our favorite moments from our live archive.

Jay Ray:

If you want the full archive for Queue Points Live, become

Jay Ray:

a member at queuepoints.com.

Jay Ray:

We love y'all.

Jay Ray:

Enjoy the episode.

Jay Ray:

Peace.

Sir Daniel:

Greetings, and welcome to another episode of Queue Points podcast.

Sir Daniel:

I am DJ Sir Daniel

Jay Ray:

And my name is Jay Ray, sometimes known by my government

Jay Ray:

as Johnnie Ray Kornegay III.

Jay Ray:

Sir Daniel, what's happening?

Sir Daniel:

Ooh, a lot is happening.

Sir Daniel:

Um- A lot is

Jay Ray:

happening

Jay Ray:

… Sir Daniel: a lot.

Jay Ray:

So, who, where do we begin?

Jay Ray:

All right.

Jay Ray:

So I don't know if you know this, Jay Ray, but, um, yesterday the

Jay Ray:

Atlanta Police Department held a press conference recounting- About what?

Jay Ray:

a sh- recounting a shooting-

Jay Ray:

Okay

Jay Ray:

… Sir Daniel: that took place, um, over, I think it was last summer.

Jay Ray:

Okay.

Sir Daniel:

Um, a shooting that happened, and it took the lives of two

Sir Daniel:

young Black boys who literally, they spent, they were, they just turned 13.

Sir Daniel:

It happened on their birthday.

Sir Daniel:

Okay.

Sir Daniel:

And they, and the police are saying that they literally were

Sir Daniel:

able to be 13 for only, what, 24 hours or less than 24 hours.

Sir Daniel:

It was terrible, right?

Sir Daniel:

So during this police conference, the, they held a press conference.

Sir Daniel:

During the press conference, um, Atlanta rap artist Lil Baby-

Jay Ray:

Mm-hmm

Jay Ray:

… Sir Daniel: well, not during the press conference, but, um, some people dug up

Jay Ray:

the arrest warrants, and then, and Lil Baby's name came up in the arrest warrant,

Jay Ray:

um, being named as the alleged catalyst for this shooting due to him filming

Jay Ray:

a music video in rival gang territory.

Jay Ray:

So APD, Atlanta Police- Okay … their theory is that the video shoot sparked

Jay Ray:

a summer of violence in Atlanta.

Jay Ray:

At, at… Did I just say Atlantor?

Jay Ray:

Atlanta over, um, the summer of 2024.

Jay Ray:

So I bring that up to say the assumption Made is that a young Black

Jay Ray:

celebrity, in this case Lil Baby-

Jay Ray:

Mm-hmm

Jay Ray:

… Sir Daniel: has the influence to shape the community to be more, to

Jay Ray:

be a more positive place, right?

Jay Ray:

Yes.

Sir Daniel:

And that is assigned to them because they are considered, um, our

Sir Daniel:

talented, what they used to say back in the day, our talented 10th, right?

Sir Daniel:

Now I, I wouldn't conflate Lil Baby with-

Jay Ray:

No

Jay Ray:

… Sir Daniel: the term that we're discussing tonight, genius.

Jay Ray:

No, no, no, no.

Jay Ray:

And that's, and that's no shade.

Jay Ray:

That's no shade to

Jay Ray:

Lil Baby.

Jay Ray:

And that's no

Sir Daniel:

shade.

Sir Daniel:

That's no shade to Lil Baby.

Sir Daniel:

But it's part of the conversation we're having about responsibility and burdens

Sir Daniel:

that we place on people who are given that label and who are thrust in the

Sir Daniel:

spotlight, and who have the eyes of, at times, the nation, and particularly the

Sir Daniel:

Black community on them at all times.

Jay Ray:

Mm-hmm.

Sir Daniel:

Um, so this conversation, um, sparked because you and I made

Sir Daniel:

sure that we checked out the Sly Stone, um, s- uh, documentary on Hulu.

Sir Daniel:

Yes.

Jay Ray:

Mm-hmm.

Sir Daniel:

Uh, and which is fantastic.

Jay Ray:

Yes.

Sir Daniel:

Please, if you have, if you have your own subscription or you

Sir Daniel:

need to borrow somebody else's sub- subscription- … make sure you check

Sir Daniel:

out that documentary currently on Hulu.

Sir Daniel:

It's amazing.

Sir Daniel:

But Jay Ray, isn't… There's a section, it's at the very

Sir Daniel:

beginning of the documentary-

Jay Ray:

Mm-hmm

Jay Ray:

… Sir Daniel: where we see this shadowy figure, this big hat, and

Jay Ray:

somebody lighting up a cigarette.

Jay Ray:

Yeah.

Jay Ray:

And it happens to be D'Angelo.

Jay Ray:

D'Angelo.

Jay Ray:

And, and my mind was blown- Yeah … 'cause I was like, damn,

Jay Ray:

you really hardly see D'Angelo, and you barely hear him get to speak.

Jay Ray:

Oh yeah, he doesn't do interviews and stuff like that anymore, no.

Sir Daniel:

At all.

Sir Daniel:

But because you know who- It's Sly … Ahmir Questlove- I

Jay Ray:

mean,

Sir Daniel:

and it's Ahmir

Jay Ray:

Questlove

Jay Ray:

… Sir Daniel: is behind the cameras and is behind this documentary- Yes … of

Jay Ray:

course he sat down to speak to him.

Jay Ray:

Yes.

Jay Ray:

And Ahmir asked him a question, and he asked a lot of dif-

Jay Ray:

different, um, musicians the same question, "What is Black genius?"

Jay Ray:

Yeah.

Jay Ray:

And that sparked our conversation about what we're having tonight,

Jay Ray:

or what we're having during this episode of Queue Points.

Jay Ray:

And we're gonna talk about it.

Jay Ray:

What is Black genius?

Jay Ray:

Is there, can it be defined?

Jay Ray:

Is it, you know, Jay Ray, what do you think?

Jay Ray:

Is it, is it a fair title to put on people?

Jay Ray:

Oh, um-

Jay Ray:

Is it a fair title to put on people?

Jay Ray:

It's so funny because I think Sly in that, in that interview was also

Jay Ray:

being asked to grapple with that.

Jay Ray:

You mean

Sir Daniel:

D'Angelo?

Jay Ray:

I… Um, well, uh, D'Angelo, yes, but then Sly, they

Jay Ray:

kinda did it with Sly too, um, when the interviewer- He sure did.

Jay Ray:

Sure did … was kinda doing the same thing.

Jay Ray:

And I think the answer is it's okay to put the label on folks.

Jay Ray:

I think it can be, um, I think it can be, it can be, uh, acknowledging

Jay Ray:

the brilliance of that person.

Jay Ray:

I think the problem becomes what society does with people

Jay Ray:

we put in that category, right?

Jay Ray:

So- Mm-hmm … um, in terms of how we kind of, uh, of, of deify

Jay Ray:

them, um, in a- Right … in a way.

Jay Ray:

Um, Viz is asking the question, and I'm gonna ask this here

Jay Ray:

for you, um, Sir Daniel.

Jay Ray:

When you ask that question, are we thinking specifically

Jay Ray:

in the arts or just in general?

Sir Daniel:

I am, because they are always, we're always asking

Sir Daniel:

questions and ex- and putting lofty expectations on people in the arts.

Sir Daniel:

Mm-hmm.

Sir Daniel:

Specifically celebrities, specifically in the, uh, musicians, Black musicians.

Sir Daniel:

I would say that's what we're speaking on tonight.

Sir Daniel:

Um, and so yeah, we're speaking to them specifically because they have

Sir Daniel:

become the go-to figures, whereas back in the, just for taking for

Sir Daniel:

instance in the Civil Rights Movement, whereas our celebrities back then-

Jay Ray:

Mm-hmm

Jay Ray:

… Sir Daniel: were Martin Luther King.

Jay Ray:

Yeah.

Sir Daniel:

And, you know, Hosea Williams.

Sir Daniel:

Those are the people that we look to for guidance, we look

Sir Daniel:

to for, you know, for strength.

Sir Daniel:

Mm-hmm.

Sir Daniel:

To, we look for, we look for their plans.

Sir Daniel:

We look for them to tell us or to, to tell us, "Okay, where are we meeting next?"

Jay Ray:

Mm-hmm.

Sir Daniel:

Where are we, you know, because, and mostly

Sir Daniel:

because we had a common goal.

Sir Daniel:

Yeah.

Sir Daniel:

So they were able to, to wrangle us together or to, to make those battle cries

Sir Daniel:

that we listened to and we followed them.

Sir Daniel:

And so they, being that they were able to galvanize a whole community

Sir Daniel:

across the country- They, we look to them and refer to them as Black

Sir Daniel:

genius, I, I would say, in my opinion.

Jay Ray:

No, no, no.

Jay Ray:

I don't think, I think you're, I think you're, I don't think you're off.

Jay Ray:

I think you're onto something.

Jay Ray:

But, and you know the thing, you know what makes this a problem today?

Sir Daniel:

Hmm.

Jay Ray:

I think what makes this conversation a challenge today is

Jay Ray:

the way we con- the way we communicate with one another happens in such

Jay Ray:

a flash in the pan sort of way.

Jay Ray:

And we've watched people call themselves geniuses, and then-

Jay Ray:

Mm-hmm … we did the, we did the show.

Jay Ray:

So we have a show coming, uh, by the way, y'all should check out, about Ye,

Jay Ray:

who kind of said that this is who I am, and then people treat you as such.

Jay Ray:

Why do I point this out?

Jay Ray:

I think the, the, the challenge with the, the moniker genius is that it's,

Jay Ray:

it becomes a cel- it becomes another way to, another way to celebrity.

Jay Ray:

I think- Yes … ultimately when we use genius today, it's not It's not always

Jay Ray:

because they're great or astute at the thing that they do, but they realize

Jay Ray:

that if I get called a genius, it is going to put me above other people.

Jay Ray:

For instance, one of the geniuses music-wise that I can speak to

Jay Ray:

is absolutely Stevie Wonder.

Sir Daniel:

Okay.

Jay Ray:

I've never seen an interview or heard anyone say that Stevland

Jay Ray:

Morris felt like he was greater than the other people, right?

Jay Ray:

He used his gifts to free us all, right?

Jay Ray:

Um, so when, so when I think about like the quintessential genius,

Jay Ray:

I think of people like that.

Jay Ray:

I think the problem with genius is we equate genius to

Jay Ray:

celebrity, and that's the problem.

Sir Daniel:

genius, like diva, um, what else?

Sir Daniel:

What are other terms that we throw around loosely?

Jay Ray:

Hmm.

Sir Daniel:

Um, hot… All of these, we throw around- Yeah … a

Sir Daniel:

lot of terms, a lot of accolades very loosely, es- especially today.

Sir Daniel:

We throw them around, um, we just give them out willy-nilly.

Sir Daniel:

Sometimes these people haven't really earned that, those labels.

Jay Ray:

Asé.

Sir Daniel:

And, you know, we just tend… And because if you get 500,000

Sir Daniel:

likes on that, then everybody agrees that yes, this person is a genius.

Jay Ray:

Yeah.

Sir Daniel:

But, um, and so I think that in and of s- in of itself is dangerous

Sir Daniel:

not only to the person that we're mislabeling, but it's dangerous to us.

Sir Daniel:

It's dangerous to , I think it's dangerous to, like for instance, those young men

Sir Daniel:

that I mentioned earlier- Mm-hmm … who were shot, uh, at this, the after-

Sir Daniel:

because of the aftermath of, um, Lil Baby shooting a video in rival gang territory.

Sir Daniel:

Man.

Sir Daniel:

Uh, and even though I'm not saying that the two are, are correlated

Sir Daniel:

or related, because that's just a allegation that is being made now.

Sir Daniel:

Mm-hmm.

Sir Daniel:

But a lot of people, a lot of especially young people are formidable

Sir Daniel:

and are looking for someone to Someone that they think has more

Sir Daniel:

knowledge than them to guide them.

Jay Ray:

Yeah.

Sir Daniel:

And a lot of times that's something that may

Sir Daniel:

not be present in the home.

Sir Daniel:

Mm-hmm.

Sir Daniel:

Or, or a lot of times that's, that happens because we don't consider maybe

Sir Daniel:

that person is closer to them in age.

Jay Ray:

Mm-hmm.

Sir Daniel:

And nowadays especially, there's like, there

Sir Daniel:

isn't a lot of respect for elders.

Jay Ray:

Yeah.

Sir Daniel:

I don't- we don't see that a whole lot these days.

Sir Daniel:

There's a lot of… There isn't just, there just isn't a lot of respect for

Sir Daniel:

elders, and I, and that comes out of this culture of not always taking what the

Sir Daniel:

elders say as 100%, which I, I, I, I, I don't have a whole lot of beef with, but

Sir Daniel:

there's just, it's kind of almost ver- um, verging on disrespect and disdain for

Sir Daniel:

every and anything that's considered old.

Sir Daniel:

And so when that happens, then you have a lot of people, you know, young people

Sir Daniel:

looking out- outside of the people that they come in contact with, like the

Sir Daniel:

outside of their school teachers, outside of- Yeah … the bus driver that takes

Sir Daniel:

them to school, outside of their parents, outside of their grandparents, you know?

Sir Daniel:

And so it just feels like that is part of the, like you said, the

Sir Daniel:

glamorization and the idol worship of a lot of people who just happen to

Sir Daniel:

have a lot of attention placed on them.

Sir Daniel:

And then you start throwing out the term genius to them because-

Sir Daniel:

Yeah … they made a dope beat.

Sir Daniel:

You know, they, they were able to chop up a beat really quickly.

Jay Ray:

Yeah.

Sir Daniel:

And ah, that boy's a genius.

Sir Daniel:

That girl's a gen-… You know?

Sir Daniel:

The- Yeah … that's, it, it starts off like that, really innocuous, but

Sir Daniel:

then it becomes a problem in the long run when you don't think about it,

Sir Daniel:

but it's back there in your head.

Sir Daniel:

You think, "Oh, this, I can take what this person is saying as gospel."

Jay Ray:

You know, yes.

Jay Ray:

And, um, I think this is a

Jay Ray:

I think this, uh, uh, came across in the Slide documentary a lot.

Sir Daniel:

Mm-hmm.

Jay Ray:

Um, but one of the things I wanted to mention is I believe

Jay Ray:

that every person on this earth

Jay Ray:

has something that they do that is working in their genius.

Jay Ray:

Yeah.

Jay Ray:

I truly, truly believe that.

Jay Ray:

The challenge is, right, we know that not everybody can get there though, right?

Sir Daniel:

Exactly.

Jay Ray:

We know that not everybody can get there, but we all have something

Jay Ray:

that is like, that person is in it.

Jay Ray:

That, that is their genius work right there, right?

Jay Ray:

And w- and the beautiful thing that I think about the genius

Jay Ray:

work, that's when we get stuff like Songs in the Key of Life, right?

Jay Ray:

When you, when you, when that person recognizes, "No,

Jay Ray:

this is what I am here to do.

Jay Ray:

This is my work, and I am going to do it at the highest level that I can

Jay Ray:

do it." And but, but even more than that, it's bigger than me, right?

Jay Ray:

Um, and for some folks, it's all-consuming, right?

Jay Ray:

Yes.

Jay Ray:

So it consumes you, and I think that's what we saw in the Sly documentary.

Jay Ray:

Q-Tip brought that up, and he was like, "If you have this thing, it gets bigger,

Jay Ray:

and then it becomes a monster, and then it becomes bigger than you, and

Jay Ray:

then it swallows you if you let it."

Jay Ray:

So you have to have people around you that are also going to be

Jay Ray:

like, "Hey," "you get, you, you real close to that edge." Mm-hmm.

Jay Ray:

"You are brilliant But you know what I mean?

Jay Ray:

But p-

Sir Daniel:

Yes.

Sir Daniel:

I do, I understand what you're saying because we'll take… Okay, so I think

Sir Daniel:

where Jay Ray is going, and, and I hope I'm following here correctly- Yeah

Sir Daniel:

there are a lot of people that we call genius who also have these,

Sir Daniel:

who also tend to be painfully shy-

Jay Ray:

Mm-hmm

Jay Ray:

… Sir Daniel: socially awkward, um, have their own little ticks.

Jay Ray:

Now that we h- we're in this age where we have a lot more

Jay Ray:

information about people being born in spectrums, different spectrums.

Jay Ray:

Mm-hmm.

Jay Ray:

You know, the word autism comes out a lot.

Jay Ray:

Mm-hmm.

Jay Ray:

Um, um, ADHD, all of the different things, things that are, have been

Jay Ray:

undiagnosed back then or not really paid attention to, especially in the

Jay Ray:

Black community, because of course, medically, we are the last people to be

Jay Ray:

included in those, um, conversations- Of course … and discoveries.

Jay Ray:

You know, it ain't been that

Jay Ray:

research.

Jay Ray:

Mm-hmm.

Sir Daniel:

Exactly.

Sir Daniel:

So we dealt with that.

Sir Daniel:

Michael Jackson, uh, you know, he's just eccentric.

Sir Daniel:

He's a genius.

Sir Daniel:

We'll let that go.

Jay Ray:

Yeah.

Sir Daniel:

But then fast-forward a few years later, the other people that we

Sir Daniel:

are calling genius that, you know, their behavior becomes a little more outlandish.

Sir Daniel:

You have people who, you know, who, who like to take younger people

Sir Daniel:

and put them a- and make them their concubines, and keep them- Yes

Sir Daniel:

locked up and keep them locked away and-

Jay Ray:

Yes

Jay Ray:

… Sir Daniel: you know, p- perform different things on them that they

Jay Ray:

shouldn't, and then they record that.

Jay Ray:

Or you… And they, you know, they have a, they just do really bad behavior.

Jay Ray:

Right.

Sir Daniel:

And so I think what we're doing is we, uh, what we were doing is we

Sir Daniel:

weren't drawing a line between somebody being socially awkward and somebody

Sir Daniel:

just being, just playing the fool and, and exhibiting really bad behavior, and

Sir Daniel:

excusing that bad behavior as just genius.

Sir Daniel:

It's like, and then, then we get to the part, point where now it's like,

Sir Daniel:

oh, oh, they're not… Oh, they, they really, they were really a bad person.

Sir Daniel:

And it's like, well, why, why do we get upset when we buy tickets to the circus

Sir Daniel:

and clowns start acting like clowns?

Sir Daniel:

You know?

Jay Ray:

That's exactly it, right?

Jay Ray:

There is this thin line, right?

Jay Ray:

And, and, and- Mm-hmm … I'm gonna use a I statement.

Jay Ray:

I need to be better at being able to distinguish right, when

Jay Ray:

that line is being crossed.

Jay Ray:

You know what I mean?

Jay Ray:

Yeah.

Jay Ray:

And then be able to adjust accordingly, right?

Jay Ray:

Um, but I, I do think-

Jay Ray:

In, in thinking about responsibility, and this is going back to the Lil Baby

Jay Ray:

thing I do think it, it does bear the question, if we have these folks that

Jay Ray:

do have, um, gen- they're, they're working in their genius, they have genius

Jay Ray:

ability, and they're, they're working in that genius, um, specifically musicians

Sir Daniel:

Mm-hmm

Jay Ray:

Is it their responsibility, right-

Sir Daniel:

Mm-hmm

Jay Ray:

to represent all of us?

Jay Ray:

There we go.

Jay Ray:

And that's another question, right, that comes along with this Black genius.

Jay Ray:

We saw Sly, right?

Jay Ray:

And when you look at, when you look at this documentary, the

Jay Ray:

undeniable, like, that… Pause.

Jay Ray:

There's a thing I did not know.

Jay Ray:

I did not know that Sly Stone, the original version of Somebody to Love was

Jay Ray:

produced by Sly Stone, and it was when Grace Slick left the group, I think it

Jay Ray:

was called the General Society- Mm-hmm

Jay Ray:

she took that song with her to Jefferson Airplane.

Jay Ray:

But- I want

Sir Daniel:

you so, somebody to love

Sir Daniel:

… Jay Ray: want some- but Sly- Yeah … Stone did the first version-

Sir Daniel:

Mm-hmm … of that song with them.

Sir Daniel:

Yes.

Sir Daniel:

That was like, what in the world?

Sir Daniel:

I had no idea.

Sir Daniel:

So why do I s- so, so when you are working at that level,

Sir Daniel:

and Sly had to face this about Black folk coming, and I think

Sir Daniel:

we do this to Black people a lot.

Sir Daniel:

Mm.

Jay Ray:

When Black people ascend to a particular level, it's like, "Now,

Jay Ray:

when you get up there, you make sure that you are repping all of us."

Sir Daniel:

Right.

Sir Daniel:

Right.

Jay Ray:

And I get why we do it, because we have been so marginalized

Jay Ray:

and oppressed that when somebody is a little bit visible, we get whatever.

Jay Ray:

But it, it's ultimately a question, is, is that a responsibility?

Sir Daniel:

And I think specifically, um, what we saw, an example of what

Sir Daniel:

we saw is that Sly was being asked for a financial responsibility.

Sir Daniel:

He

Jay Ray:

sure was.

Jay Ray:

And that happened- $100,000, that's a lot of money in the '60s.

Sir Daniel:

That's a, a lot.

Sir Daniel:

That was a lot of money back then.

Sir Daniel:

It did.

Sir Daniel:

And his response was, "Now, why you think, you know, tell, tell me why

Sir Daniel:

you think I need to give this to you?"

Sir Daniel:

Right.

Sir Daniel:

Which is a fair question.

Jay Ray:

Mm-hmm.

Sir Daniel:

But the, the understanding behind that was, "No, you need

Sir Daniel:

to remember who, where you came from and who you belong to."

Jay Ray:

Hmm.

Sir Daniel:

And unfortunately, some, the Black community, what we like to do is

Sir Daniel:

we, when we remind people of that, and if they don't move according to what

Sir Daniel:

we say or what we think they should do-

Sir Daniel:

Smack them

Sir Daniel:

you know, we tend to cast them out- Mm-hmm … and call them all kinds

Sir Daniel:

of derogatory ter- terms Sellouts and all types of stuff … sellouts.

Sir Daniel:

There are members of the community that feel, I don't know, that Jay-Z and Beyoncé

Sir Daniel:

are responsible for wiping out poverty, um- wiping out, you know, police violence.

Sir Daniel:

They're responsible for, like, people should have new homes, I guess.

Sir Daniel:

There's this, in some cases- Yeah … unreasonable expectation of people like

Sir Daniel:

a Jay-Z and Beyoncé to do things that they, because they have a l- a lot more

Sir Daniel:

money than the average person in the community, that they should be doing.

Sir Daniel:

And so we're like, I'm like, "Mm." Mm-hmm.

Sir Daniel:

"Th- y'all are really f- quick to, to hate on somebody because they don't

Sir Daniel:

do and jump when you say jump." And I don't think, I don't think that is

Sir Daniel:

fair to the people that we consider our, our Black genius, and I'm doing

Sir Daniel:

that in air quotes for the listeners.

Sir Daniel:

Um, yeah.

Sir Daniel:

It's, it's just a really weird thing that we tend to do to pe- we start to

Sir Daniel:

eat our own, eat our, you know, eat our own people, uh, once we feel like

Sir Daniel:

they're not doing what we want them to do.

Jay Ray:

So I think this, this also, you know, of course, th- there's so many

Jay Ray:

layers in this Sly documentary because of course that came up too when they were

Jay Ray:

talking about, um- Dream Hampton actually really put an exclamation point on this.

Jay Ray:

There is both, um, a fear of, um, not being good enough and a fear of

Jay Ray:

succeeding at, like, the same time.

Jay Ray:

Like, both things are happening simultaneously.

Jay Ray:

It's like- Right … there's this fear, this, this, th- that's that

Jay Ray:

imposter syndrome that we talk about.

Jay Ray:

So that's when we started talking about Sly as being painfully shy

Jay Ray:

and, like, all of these things.

Jay Ray:

But then in addition to that, there's also this like, for Black folks,

Jay Ray:

this intense fear of success because of all of what that brings, and

Jay Ray:

I think that gets to that piece.

Jay Ray:

And I think what you're also underscoring is this is the problem

Jay Ray:

with capitalism- Mm-hmm … and this is the problem, this is ultimately a

Jay Ray:

problem with, like, uh, racism and white supremacy and how it, it m- it forces

Jay Ray:

us To do this to our folks, right?

Sir Daniel:

Yep.

Jay Ray:

Um, so yeah, I think in, in all of this, I think where I ultimately

Jay Ray:

landed, 'cause when we were fo- first kicking around this question,

Jay Ray:

you know me, I'm like, "Of course!"

Jay Ray:

"Every artist has a responsibility to their, their people and their tribe.

Jay Ray:

Of course they do, Sir Daniel." And now I'm like, "Baby, but that's stressful."

Jay Ray:

I'm go- I, what, I will do what I can.

Jay Ray:

I should do what I can.

Jay Ray:

And let that be it, right?

Jay Ray:

At least for me.

Jay Ray:

And then we did have some people respond to this.

Jay Ray:

I think it's a good time to bring in those comments too.

Sir Daniel:

Yes.

Jay Ray:

So, um, uh, Kitty4Men over on TikTok said, "Not all Black musicians

Jay Ray:

have a responsibility to put out music that is authentic to them." Oh, "Not all

Jay Ray:

Black musicians have a responsibility to put out music that is authentic to them

Jay Ray:

and how they see the reality." So I think what they're saying is, no, they don't.

Jay Ray:

Carlton said, "Black musicians have a responsibility to their musicianship."

Jay Ray:

So where I think even, you know, Queue Points fam checking me too, and, and

Jay Ray:

where I was with it, you know, it's like- … "No, Johnnie." First of all,

Jay Ray:

when I think about it, that's a lot.

Jay Ray:

That's a lot.

Sir Daniel:

It is a lot.

Sir Daniel:

It's, like you said, it's… Some people call it a ivory tower.

Sir Daniel:

It's a ivory prison.

Jay Ray:

Ooh.

Sir Daniel:

Being, being a, labeled a Black genius.

Sir Daniel:

Bar.

Sir Daniel:

Like we've, we've been… White supremacy has truly done a number on

Sir Daniel:

us, and it's, it's been like this, um, this ripple effect in a pond that just

Sir Daniel:

continues, the waves just continue to follow us century after century.

Sir Daniel:

And a lot of people, we're doing it to ourselves now.

Sir Daniel:

They don't ha- they don't have to do anything But we have, except every now

Sir Daniel:

and then they do remind us, um- … I get, there was a point in that Sly documentary

Sir Daniel:

where they, people were saying they didn't want Sly to be revolutionary on his songs.

Sir Daniel:

Oh, yeah.

Sir Daniel:

They didn't want him to be an activist in the music.

Sir Daniel:

And then it, it brought me to present day when, uh, was it Megan Kelly or one

Sir Daniel:

of those people on the right on, in the media that said they wanted to people

Sir Daniel:

to shut up and dribble re- Mm-hmm.

Sir Daniel:

Mm-hmm … regarding Black athletes.

Sir Daniel:

So it's like if you, the white supre- white supremacy says if you've been

Sir Daniel:

given this opportunity and given this money, you need to shut up.

Sir Daniel:

Mm. And you need, you need to not, you better not complain.

Sir Daniel:

Mm-hmm.

Sir Daniel:

And so that's a, that's one prison, ivory prison that Black genius puts you in.

Sir Daniel:

Then you have another prison of not being able to be completely free-

Jay Ray:

Yeah

Jay Ray:

… Sir Daniel: to completely, to be who you are, or if you start doing things that

Jay Ray:

is, is free to you or, you know, doesn't necessarily follow the, the way that other

Jay Ray:

people do it, then you become a outcast.

Jay Ray:

Then you become- Mm … uh, you know, then people start calling you

Jay Ray:

weird, you know, then you have to run around wearing surgical masks.

Jay Ray:

Um- Mm … if you're dealing with different problems, people th- you

Jay Ray:

know, people think that you're on drugs and then you might end up on drugs.

Jay Ray:

Yeah.

Jay Ray:

It's, it's just a lot of, it's a really terrible ripple effect that continues to

Jay Ray:

haunt us, and then we, the things that we do to each other, Jay Ray, like there's

Jay Ray:

still people who hate the fact that there was, remember the term the talented 10th?

Jay Ray:

Oh, yeah.

Sir Daniel:

That they, we used back in the '50s and '60s to describe- Mm-hmm … the

Sir Daniel:

people who went on to, you know, our prestigious, um, universities- Mm-hmm

Sir Daniel:

… our HBCUs, and then it felt like they were being segmented and so they're the ta-

Sir Daniel:

talented 10th and they don't have nothing else to do with y'all yellow people.

Sir Daniel:

And, you know, the, the, of the cost of escalating and operating

Sir Daniel:

in your genius, I love that term.

Sir Daniel:

Yes.

Sir Daniel:

Instead of calling somebody a genius, operating in the genius

Sir Daniel:

of music, operating in the genius- Yeah … of finance.

Sir Daniel:

I think that instead of putting that label on people, we shouldn't start

Sir Daniel:

referring to people by what they do.

Sir Daniel:

Yes.

Sir Daniel:

Just, you know, just operating in your g- in whatever it is you do- Yeah … I

Sir Daniel:

think is a really dope way to put it.

Sir Daniel:

Yeah.

Sir Daniel:

But yeah, I think that's a, we putting, we putting each other in these ivory prisons.

Jay Ray:

Mm. That's real talk.

Jay Ray:

Yeah.

Jay Ray:

Um, what do y'all think, you know, in terms of, um, this particular question?

Jay Ray:

One, that idea of genius, and, and you know what, I do wanna

Jay Ray:

bring in a comment 'cause, uh, Trey said this "The word genius is

Jay Ray:

being thrown around way too much."

Jay Ray:

Growing up, our bar for genius was very, very high.

Jay Ray:

And I know that I can speak for myself, in fact.

Jay Ray:

I would, I would look at people like, um, Prince is a, a good

Jay Ray:

example, Stevie is another.

Jay Ray:

But also there would be people in my personal life where you would just be

Jay Ray:

like, that person literally walks around Chester is like brill- just brilliant.

Jay Ray:

I don't even understand how they do that.

Jay Ray:

Um, I see my cousin that way.

Jay Ray:

Um- Mm. She is just like, I don't know how you do that thing that you

Jay Ray:

do, but it's amazing that you're able to do that 'cause I cannot.

Jay Ray:

So many, there are genius walking among us in our lives.

Jay Ray:

They're not just musicians, they're like walking among us,

Jay Ray:

and they're, and we see it.

Jay Ray:

And they don't have to call themselves that.

Jay Ray:

We could just, we just know

Sir Daniel:

I think you just said something when you were

Sir Daniel:

referring to your cousin-

Jay Ray:

Mm.

Sir Daniel:

You were talking about the fact that your cousin could do

Sir Daniel:

something that- Shout out to Lynette.

Jay Ray:

Lynette- Lynette, she's not watching tonight,

Jay Ray:

but shout out to Lynette.

Sir Daniel:

Well, you was, you were referring to the fact that Lynette

Sir Daniel:

could do something that you couldn't do.

Sir Daniel:

Yeah.

Sir Daniel:

So you assigned to her-

Jay Ray:

Just

Sir Daniel:

me … the label genius.

Sir Daniel:

And I think, and if you think about it, we do that a lot.

Jay Ray:

Mm-hmm.

Sir Daniel:

And I, I don't think people understand how harmful it is to, I'm

Sir Daniel:

gonna use a old Bible term, to covet-

Jay Ray:

Mm

Sir Daniel:

covet each other's gifts.

Jay Ray:

Ooh,

Sir Daniel:

you wanna talk about it.

Sir Daniel:

And that's doing… And, and this, and listen, social media makes it

Sir Daniel:

really, really easy for us to covet one another and covet one another's gifts.

Sir Daniel:

And so I think for our wellbeing as a people, it's like sometimes we gotta

Sir Daniel:

ease back and really think about how people, the cost that people paid to, for

Sir Daniel:

their gifts, um, whether natural or the things that they've been able to acquire.

Jay Ray:

Yeah.

Sir Daniel:

We gotta really step back and think, "Mm, what

Sir Daniel:

was the trade-off?" Mm-hmm.

Sir Daniel:

Because if you knew, listener, if you knew what Prince paid-

Jay Ray:

Mm

Jay Ray:

… Sir Daniel: to do what he did, if you knew what… Well, we both

Jay Ray:

saw what, we all saw what happened to Prince and Michael Jackson.

Jay Ray:

We saw it.

Jay Ray:

But we don't know what Stevie Wonder had to do f- pay off or- Mm-hmm

Jay Ray:

pay for his genius.

Jay Ray:

We don't know what, you know, DMX-

Jay Ray:

Mm-hmm

Jay Ray:

… Sir Daniel: well, I'm s- there I go naming dead, dead people

Jay Ray:

again, but we don't know.

Jay Ray:

Uh, my point is we don't know, and we should really, really, really

Jay Ray:

check ourselves when we start to, um, impose our feelings of inequity-

Jay Ray:

Mm

Jay Ray:

… Sir Daniel: on other people and use, and try to use what they have to, to measure

Jay Ray:

ourselves and our growth and where we are and who we are in this world, 'cause

Jay Ray:

it's, it's just not gonna end well.

Jay Ray:

Sir Daniel, that is a word.

Jay Ray:

And, and, and to that point, um, so there's two comments, uh, uh, that

Jay Ray:

have come up in the chat from YouTube.

Jay Ray:

One is from Trey, "Maybe the word we should be using is brilliance."

Jay Ray:

Yes, we can borrow that- Brilliance … from the, the Brits.

Jay Ray:

Absolutely.

Jay Ray:

We love them.

Sir Daniel:

Brilliance.

Jay Ray:

Um, and Mark also added, um, "Genius is a heavy crown to lay on someone

Jay Ray:

that not everyone is strong enough to carry", and that's absolutely true.

Jay Ray:

And I think also, Sir Daniel, what you are underscoring is just a reminder for all of

Jay Ray:

us that we all got gifts We all got gifts

Sir Daniel:

Yes.

Sir Daniel:

Yes

Jay Ray:

And don't let, and don't let nobody tell you different, right?

Jay Ray:

Um, I think I'm still learning at my big age to be okay, like, to

Jay Ray:

be okay accepting my gifts, right?

Sir Daniel:

Mm-hmm.

Jay Ray:

I am, I'm be- 48 and still figuring out, like, how

Jay Ray:

to be okay with sitting in the things that I do well, right?

Jay Ray:

Um, we all got something.

Jay Ray:

Y'all, if you listening to this, you got something.

Jay Ray:

Um, lean into your thing.

Jay Ray:

Lean into your something, and we really need you to lean into your something.

Jay Ray:

We need you to lean into it.

Sir Daniel:

That's it.

Sir Daniel:

There you go.

Sir Daniel:

Thank you for that.

Jay Ray:

If you could see our faces, hear our voices, uh, thank

Jay Ray:

y'all so much for being here.

Jay Ray:

We love y'all.

Jay Ray:

Uh, make sure that you subscribe to Queue Points.

Jay Ray:

Uh, visit our website at queuepoints.com.

Jay Ray:

There you can sign up for our newsletter.

Jay Ray:

Um, but you can check out all the old shows too.

Jay Ray:

And then, uh, you can shop our store at store.queuepoints.com.

Jay Ray:

We appreciate y'all.

Jay Ray:

We love y'all.

Sir Daniel:

Absolutely.

Sir Daniel:

And what do I always say?

Sir Daniel:

In this life, you always, you always have a choice.

Sir Daniel:

You can either pick up the needle or you can let the record play.

Sir Daniel:

This has been Queue Points podcast, dropping the needle

Sir Daniel:

on Black music history.

Sir Daniel:

We will see you on the next go round.

Sir Daniel:

Peace, y'all.

Jay Ray:

Peace, y'all.

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About the Podcast

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Queue Points

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About your hosts

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DJ Sir Daniel

DJ Sir Daniel is a DJ/Selector and part of Atlanta's, all-vinyl crew, Wax Fundamentals. Co-host of the Queue Points podcast, he is an advocate for DJ culture and is passionate about creating atmospheres of inclusivity and jubilation from a Black perspective.

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Jay Ray

Johnnie Ray Kornegay III (Jay Ray) is a podcast consultant and co-host and producer of Queue Points, the Ambie Award-nominated podcast that drops the needle on Black music history. In addition to his duties at Queue Points, he is the Deputy Director of Strategy and Impact for CNP (Counter Narrative Project). A photographer, creative consultant and social commentator, Jay Ray's work is centered around a commitment to telling full and honest stories about communities often ignored.