Episode 212
From Hank Ballard to The Fat Boys: How The Twist Connected Black Musical Generations
DJ Sir Daniel and Jay Ray talk about those post-Civil Rights dances our parents' generation did—like the Twist, Watusi, Swim, Jerk, and Bus Stop—and how we Gen Xers picked them up from TV reruns and family talks. It's like sitting around remembering Soul Train lines, What's Happening episodes, and how those moves showed up at house parties and clubs. They trace the Twist from Hank Ballard's original to Chubby Checker's American Bandstand version, then to the Fat Boys sampling it in hip hop.
- Hank Ballard's "The Twist" gets remade by Chubby Checker for a wider crowd on shows like American Bandstand out of Philly.
- Gen X watching Gidget, What's Happening, and Soul Train, seeing parents do the Watusi or Jerk and arguing about "your music."
- Fat Boys bring the Twist back in the '80s with their hip hop take, linking '50s records to new beats.
- Bus Stop line dances on local TV clips, led by folks like Charlie Green, with People's Choice tracks, showing group vibes in Black spaces.
- Movies like Hairspray and Dirty Dancing catching that era's dance energy from Baltimore clubs to Catskills resorts.
Chapter Markers
00:00 Intro Theme
00:16 Welcome to the Show
02:48 The Evolution of Dance in Black Culture
05:59 The Twist: A Cultural Phenomenon
08:49 Chubby Checker and the Crossover Effect
11:45 The Importance of Dance in Black Expression
14:44 Movies and Dance: Hairspray and Dirty Dancing
17:44 The Role of Dance in Social Movements
20:55 The Bus Stop: A Community Dance
23:48 Documenting Dance for Future Generations
27:54 Outro Theme
Support Queue Points By Becoming An Insider: https://link.queuepoints.com/membership
#QueuePoints, #BlackMusicHistory, #TheTwist, #HankBallard, #ChubbyChecker, #FatBoys, #BlackDanceHistory, #Watusi, #BusStopDance, #SoulTrain, #AmericanBandstand, #BlackHistoryMonth, #GenXMusic, #PostCivilRightsDances, #DJSirDaniel, #JayRay
Transcript
Greetings and welcome to another episode of Queue Points podcast.
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:I'm DJ Sir Daniel.
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:And my name is Jay Ray sometimes known by my government as Johnnie Ray Kornegay III.
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:And, um, sir, Daniel, with today's topic, even though these dances came before we were
born, we grew up new, knowing what these dances were.
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:They were super important to black culture.
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:Well, before we do any of that, I got a question for you.
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:Jay Ray, are you ready to bend over and shake a tail feather?
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:That's what I wanted to know.
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:I'm already ready to bend over and take a tail feather.
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:Listen.
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:we are discussing, you know, as we delve into Black History Month, you know, people have
great ways of selling Black history, celebrating Black History Month.
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:But we here at Queue Points podcast, dropping the needle on Black music history.
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:If we're talking about music, we can't not talk about dancing because dancing is an
outward expression and reaction to the music that has been gifted to us.
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:by all of the um ancestors that have come before us.
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:And we've enjoyed talking about everything from The Wop to The Wobble.
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:And so let's talk about these post-Civil Rights era dances that really had our parents,
Jay Ray, their generation, the Boomers had them in a chokehold.
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:Because Jay Ray we're talking about dances like the Watusi, the Swim.
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:The jerk, the fruit, the skate, the chicken, the pony.
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:mean, so here's one thing that I think we as Gen Xers have the privilege.
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:And that makes us such a great generation that people would like to try to forget.
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:We grew up watching reruns of television shows where we saw these dances in, not in, in
real life and in real time.
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:but we witnessed them and we saw and we would have conversations with our parents.
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:And that's when we had those, you don't know nothing about that kind of music.
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:You don't know nothing about that dance.
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:That's how we had those conversations and develop a lot of our um dances, especially hip
hop dances.
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:Let's take the kid and play kickstep.
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:It's a direct descendant of the Charleston.
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:It literally is the Charleston.
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:And so I love that about our generation.
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:And that's what makes talking about these dances very necessary and special for us here at
Queue Points.
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:Yeah, you know, it's interesting.
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:I'm so glad you mentioned that.
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:And I think we're also a generation that benefited from being able to see our folks do
these, do variations of dances on TV, picking up the Soul Train line, right?
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:The Soul Train line and being able to see reruns of Soul Train, right?
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:And you know what was a classic TV show that had a ton of dancing in it is what's
happening?
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:rerunning them were always doing a dance because, you know, that was part of his whole
thing, right?
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:But we truly were.
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:We are a bridge generation where we got the opportunity to see white folks dancing in
shows like Gidget.
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:And then we got to watch What's Happening.
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:And then we got to watch Soul Train, right?
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:You know what I'm saying?
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:Yes!
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:And that's how we knew who Sally Field was.
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:Y'all up here talking about, here's when I know, baby, we was watching Gidget as kids.
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:Right, y'all know her as Mrs.
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:Doubtfire.
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:We know her from Gidgie and the Flying Nuthin'.
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:Right, exactly.
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:So one of the things that we've talked about consistently as we talk about these dances,
in particular the line dances, but these dances are different.
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:All of the dances that you mentioned also had accompanying songs.
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:And one of the dances that our parents did that had an accompanying song that was a
monster international hit,
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:was the twist.
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:You could not escape the twist.
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:And we'll get to this in a minute, but we have a very particular as Gen Xers, a
relationship with the twist as well.
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:the twist was one of those dances where one, we knew the song and two, we knew that it was
a dance that our parents did in the late fifties and early sixties.
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:So high level, Sir Daniel.
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:So in getting ready for this show, um
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:I was like, okay, let me get back into the twist bag and see what's up with the twist
because I don't know if this is true for you, but I only knew the twist as a Chubby
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:Checker song.
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:um So here's the interesting history.
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:um I knew this, but I didn't know this at the same time.
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:um The twist is a remake.
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:So the twist is a remake of a song uh written by Hank Ballard.
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:Hank Ballard originally released the song The Twist.
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:What's crazy, and y'all can YouTube this, the Chubby Checker version and the Hank Ballard
version sound exactly the same, and there's a reason for that.
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:So anyway, Hank Ballard does the song, the song becomes a hit, but it is traveling as
songs did, not just in black spaces, also in white spaces.
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:It's crossing over, right?
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:Mm-hmm.
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:Mm-hmm.
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:So this is where it gets interesting.
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:There's two, I don't know what's true in this history.
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:It's probably a little bit of both and.
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:American Bandstand is a huge show out of Philadelphia.
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:Shout out to Dick Clark.
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:We all still watch rockin' New Year's Eve to this day.
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:Dick Clark is legendary.
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:Dick Clark and American Bandstand is interested in booking Hank Ballard for American
Bandstand.
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:It is one of two things happen either Hank Ballard is too risque for American bandstand in
his audience, right?
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:Which is a very white teenage audience or Hank Ballard is unavailable for the performance,
right?
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:So there's one of two things happen now, but what's interesting is Dick Clark is at
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:the center of getting a newly christened gentleman named Chubby Checker, who sounds like
Hank Ballard, to do his own version of the song, who then can appear on American
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:Bandstand.
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:That's, he was a safe choice to do the twist.
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:and it's the Chubby Checker version that takes this bubbling hit song by Hank Ballard and
it's the Chubby Checker version that goes straight to the top.
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:Isn't that something?
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:You know, and it makes a lot of sense.
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:Knowing what we know about that era eh and what we know about race records and the
whitening of a lot of these uh songs that came out of the black community.
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:so in order for, you know, the powers that be at that time still were afraid of that black
magic.
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:um
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:taking over their precious white teenagers and turning, basically turning, they were
scared their kids were gonna get turned out by the black magic.
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:of course the black sex, don't say shh.
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:You know, cause sex is definitely part of it because Chubby Chucker, no, not for nothing,
was a safe looking, a safe looking Negro at that time.
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:Well quaffed, um lightest, right?
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:um
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:And he was a bigger guy.
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:there wasn't, you know, probably he didn't, he didn't look threatening in a C look
nonsexual cause he was cherubic.
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:and so, know, that's when you, when you grew up cherubic, you kind of know all the words
used to describe when they, when somebody wants to say you fat or you husky, right?
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:So, and that, and that adds to you not being threatening.
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:And so Tubby was
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:perfect for that role.
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:And I could see why that song took off and was just, it was a safe choice for all you
groovy kids out there watching American Bandstand at the time.
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:and you know, it was, it, doesn't require a lot of coordination, which is probably why it
became so popular and crossed over for other folks to get involved in.
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:because it didn't require a whole lot of thinking and rhythm.
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:No, that's what's so interesting.
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:And I think the other thing that also made it safe, there was a way to sexualize the
twist, but for the most part, it was a thing that you can do and you didn't have to touch
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:or be up on the other person.
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:You could dance with somebody and twist.
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:Now there's plenty of ways that I've seen people do that dance that, you know, that yes.
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:a lot of lower waist movement that could be done, for, especially for the television um
ratings people and the people that uh you know, kept monitoring the sensors, kept
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:monitoring what was on television, all of that movement had to be strictly up here.
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:Yes.
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:That's why they wouldn't film even Elvis.
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:They wouldn't even film Elvis because Elvis was doing a little too much gyrating down so
it was a little too much sexual, you know, energy going out on their precious, precious
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:teenagers and their eyes and their ears.
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:So yeah, makes sense.
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:But to that point, right?
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:So Chubby Checker has this song, which is about this, this song that is a dance.
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:This song is about a dance.
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:So there's a dance and a song that coincide.
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:He uh becomes a star.
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:He does, Let's Twist Again, which becomes a big hit in Europe, specifically the UK.
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:And
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:One of the things that I truly consider to be one of the most unique things about our
ot a chance on TV during that:
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:on a regular basis.
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:This man had a hit in years, but he was a regular fixture.
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:We know what he looked like as an older version of himself.
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:And we're saying older, but realistically Chubby Checker was in his thirties, like in his
like forties.
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:Yeah, we saw him.
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:He was probably, yeah.
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:So he wasn't that old.
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:Um, but we got a chance to see him and hip hop comes a calling and all of a sudden Chubby
Checker is in our lives in a very real musical way.
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:Yes, he comes along and he, Chubby Chucker is introduced to a whole new generation via the
Fat Boys.
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:And the, and the Fat Boys have become this hip hop sensation for all the reasons that they
became a hip hop sensation.
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:We don't have to go over that, but they, part of what they were, they realized and what
they were understanding early is the power of nostalgia and the power of crossover.
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:Yes.
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:And so, um, you know, shout out to their management, whoever came up with the idea of
marrying this, um, foundation record with their new, um, techniques of beat boxing and
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:rapping.
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:It made for, uh, it really took the fat boys over the top.
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:Um, Brett breathe new life into Chubby Checker's career clearly because the eighties were
really big.
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:The fifties was really big in the eighties.
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:Do you remember that?
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:There was a lot of.
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:absolutely, yeah.
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:80s for whatever reason.
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:um But yeah, so shout out to the fat boys and Chubby Checker and, you know, him being an
unlikely musical hero when it comes to this post Jim Crow civil rights era movement,
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:because Jay Ray, all of these dances, like the, what was another one?
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:The Boogaloo.
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:Mm-hmm.
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:and the monkey, which is crazy.
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:But the monkey, you know, all of these dances were rooted in black expression and black
freedom because all of these dances, of course, were a way of us escaping, enjoying
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:escapism and enjoying each other's company.
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:when we had those moments to be free and to be ourselves and to, you know, just forget
about what was happening on in the outside world at the time.
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:And so the movements were very free and a lot of arms flailing and, you know, picking up
partners and throwing them in the air and catching them was a lot of, you know, you had to
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:really be agile and have a lot of strength in.
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:endurance to participate in these dances and the music of course did nothing but add to
it.
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:So I think oh we really, that's why it's so important for Queue Points to highlight these
moments of why it was so in particular and so special for us to have these dances.
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:And then, you know, one of the great, one of the movies, Jay Ray not that I think about
it, a movie that really spoke to
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:how important this movement was, our movement as a people, and I'm talking about physical
movement, is truly highlighted in the hairspray movie, which is.
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:to hairspray.
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:I thought you was gonna go somewhere else.
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:But okay, yes, okay.
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:Because Hairspray is, when it boils down to it, is a movie about race, race records, race
relations in Baltimore at the time.
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:And um I can't remember the director's name, who's there, John Waters, in his own way,
being an outsider himself, but growing up in the midst of that moment, saw what was
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:happening and...
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:you know, decided to tell this story about how all of they, they always wanted our flavor,
but did what did not want us included and did not want us included in the televised
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:version of the black experience.
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:Yo, it is so interesting that you mention that, that you mentioned film, because I wasn't
going to go here, but since you went there, I'm going go here.
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:One of the films that I think really embodies all of these things that we're talking
about, Dirty Dancing,
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:Same, same theme.
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:went off as a film.
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:Now, I probably, actually, I don't remember any problematic things in dirty dancing.
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:There was even black folks dancing with them in dirty dancing, which was a problem for the
people in the film.
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:Right.
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:See, Dirty Dancing, made it more about class than race.
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:Yeah.
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:But you get to see all of these dances kind of happening in this moment.
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:I think it was set in the 1960s and all of that.
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:But that's a movie that comes up where these songs that we're talking about, some of them
constantly appear.
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:But definitely folks should check out Hairspray, I agree.
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:And I would also encourage folks to check out Dirty Dancing as an 80s.
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:uh experience.
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:You'll have an experience with it.
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:And telling these stories that, you know, things really did happen.
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:They, I think they made it about class because it really could have, it probably could
have been Patrick Swayze probably could have been black, but they weren't going to go that
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:far.
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:They weren't going to have em the people's Jennifer Gray dancing with some black man with
his pelvis all the way up in her crotch.
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:You know, that wasn't about to happen.
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:because we really would have had the time of our lives watching people's faces melt in
that situation.
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:But yeah, the...
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:um
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:The retelling of these stories about the evolution of dance as it pertains to Black
history post Jim Crow and moving into the civil rights movement.
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:know, Soul Train, we were heavy in the Black power movement.
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:You know, people were dancing up and down with their afros.
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:And then we move into another golden era of music, but music accompanied with
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:glamour with, you know, we were feeling our oats.
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:you know, we got a little, we got a little, yeah.
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:Some of us were having, we're getting salary jobs now and people were being, becoming more
educated, had a little more earning power.
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:And then there was the, the disc, the invention of the discotheque and nightlife as it
were.
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:And so,
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:What I do love, there's a lot of things that we can't stand about social media and the
internet now.
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:But what I do love about the internet is every now and then, I will come across a gem
where we get these flashes of moments in time that we just look at in awe and wonder and
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:just be like, damn, y'all had it good back then.
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:There's a clip that came up maybe about a year ago.
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:of this televised dance show i believe did it take place in detroit it took place in
detroit right
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:I think it's Detroit.
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:It might be LA though, because there's a lot of LA references, but either Detroit or LA.
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:Yes, one of those.
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:so clearly, uh either a very black city where uh line dancing is a thing.
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:And so in the tradition of American Bandstand and Soul Train, a lot of these different
like local television stations would record, go to these clubs and record the patrons
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:dancing and local DJs would get, you know, local stardom based on having these.
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:There's a partnership where
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:The nightclubs get people to come in because they've seen it on television and people are
having fun and learning the latest dances.
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:Well, anyway, this is gentlemen.
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:I cannot think of his name right now, but he's leading a large group of black people.
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:And when I tell you, we look fly as hell.
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:We, we, we went to the club in suits.
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:The hair is done.
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:The gold chains, the Afros are well picked out.
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:The ladies hairs are.
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:feather to perfection.
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:And he's leading this group of black people in what we know as the bus stop.
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:And Jay Ray, what came to me was like, oh, this is like an early demonstration of who the
MC was before hip hop really became a thing.
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:Because this man was all y'all hot.
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:One more time.
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:Clap your hands.
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:Now disco time.
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:And they were dancing to People's Choice.
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:What's the name of the song?
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:Do it any way you want to do it.
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:And so that's part of the reason, that's one of the things that sparked this voyage that
we're going on as far as dance and how, with respect to the black community and black
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:history month.
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:But the bus stop, Jay Ray, was one of those dances.
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:It brought us together.
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:um And there was uh no song related to the bus.
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:Well, no.
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:A song do come along.
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:Yeah, you're right.
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:later.
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:So that's interesting thing about the bus stops.
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:So um apparently from history, I don't know how true this is because this history be
murky, y'all, when we looking up some of this stuff, because a lot of this travels
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:verbally, right?
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:um The bus stop is closely affiliated with coming out of Los Angeles and kind of
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:migrating east?
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:Well, by the time it gets east, um the Fatback band creates a song that pairs with the
dance that already exists.
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:And the song is called The Bus Stop, um which has been sampled a lot.
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:uh Most recent sample that I fell in love with, um Shaka Khan sample, on the last Shaka
Khan project, Hello Happiness.
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:Um, there is a sample, from the bus stop, as a song on here.
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:It's crazy funky and great and great song.
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:But yeah, but that song, pairs well with the dance, the bus stop, which to your point,
sir, Daniel, like we were doing in, um, in our spaces.
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:And once again, this dance providing an, a way for black folks to just commune together.
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:and be together and finding ways to do that by creating dances that we could do as a
group.
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:You know what I mean?
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:It's all about the spiritual aspect.
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:So when I was watching that video, when you sent that video to me of that brother leading
that group, I was like, yes, this is what we do.
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:so apparently he's the, it's called the Charlie green bus stop line dance.
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:And, yeah, so there's a, apparently there's an artist that is sampling that video and is,
you know how people like to make remixes.
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:So I'm going to look into that and see it's called the bus stop, please.
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:But yeah, it's called the Charlie green bus stop.
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:Man man, I love that so much.
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:ah So what I would encourage folks to do is um play around in that history a little bit
and watch movies, try some of these dances.
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:Cause I'll tell you one thing, the twist gonna open you up because you really are gonna be
moving that lower half and that upper half and doing a thing.
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:um But just try it and get connected to the history and also
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:Ask folks who may know.
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:Now, okay, for you Gen Z or Gen Alpha, your parents ain't gonna be old enough to know what
the bus stop is.
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:They're gonna be mad at you if you ask them.
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:But your great grandparents might know what the bus stop is, right?
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:So ask them.
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:Don't ask your grandparents, because they our age.
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:They ain't gonna know either, but your great grandparents will know.
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:Wait a minute, we old enough to be grandparents?
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:are old, Sir Daniel, we are old enough to be grandparents.
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:I guess if you want to claim that, sure.
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:Sure, we're old enough to be grandparents.
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:But as always, this has been fun, you know, and oh important.
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:I think that's the main thing.
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:It's fun, but it's also important that we share this information and share why it's
important, why these dances came about, what inspired them.
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:There was a whole movement of civil rights and liberation going on in this country and
Black America in true Black American form celebrated through movement.
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:We got all these great records and then we got dances to go along with them.
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:And we thank you for taking time to learn about this and we hope that this opens you up to
learning more and documenting more.
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:Document the dances that you all are doing now so that further on down the line Your
children's children to say oh, this is what y'all they were doing and this is why and
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:where it came out of
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:Absolutely.
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:Thank y'all so much.
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:If you like, if you love, if you appreciate what you just heard and what we are doing here
at Queue Points, visit our website at qpoints.com and become a member.
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:is through our membership, we are able to keep doing this amazing stuff that we do here on
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:We appreciate y'all.
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:We love y'all.
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:We absolutely do and like I always say, in this life you have a choice.
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:You can either pick up the needle or you can let the record play.
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:I am DJ Sir Daniel.
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:My name is Jay Ray-Yaw.
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:And this is Queue Points podcast, Dropping the Needle on Black Music History.
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:We will see you on the next go round.
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:Now clap one time.
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:Hahaha!
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:Clap two times.
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:Stick your booty out.
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:It's what's up.
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:uh
