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Episode 226

Donwill on The Almanac of Rap & The Art of the Interview

There's a moment in this conversation where Jay Ray marvels at Donwill asking Raekwon why the Purple Tape was purple. And Raekwon's answer — "they didn't have green" — says everything you need to know about why Donwill is built differently as an interviewer. He's not chasing the headline. He's chasing the thing just outside the frame.

Donwill — rapper, DJ, Webby Award-winning podcaster, and one half of Tanya Morgan — sits down with DJ Sir Daniel and Jay Ray to talk about the craft behind The Almanac of Rap, his Okayplayer-produced podcast series. This conversation covers what it takes to interview artists the right way, how hip hop journalism lost the plot to the algorithm, and what it meant to step on a comedy stage as a rapper after hiding in plain sight behind the DJ booth. Twenty years after Moonlighting, Donwill is still using history to build the future — and this episode shows exactly how he thinks.

The Breakdown

  • What started as a Twitch rant about LL Cool J became a Webby Award-winning podcast — Donwill breaks down how The Almanac of Rap grew from pandemic-era Twitch streams and a nudge from a friend into one of the most respected hip hop interview series running today.
  • The art of the question nobody else is asking — From the color of Raekwon's tape to the wellness routines of artists in their fifties, Donwill explains why good interviewing means finding the thing just outside the frame of what everyone already knows.
  • "We're at the point where the clip is the whole thing" — A real conversation about hip hop journalism, algorithm dependency, and why the only honest answer to clip culture might be to let it burn.
  • Michelle Buteau told him to rap — and he listened — The story of how DJing her tour led to an opening set, a new audience, and a reminder that leaning into the craft you sidelined can open new doors.
  • Rob Base was never a one-hit wonder — he was a legendary artist — In the wake of Rob Base's passing, the conversation shifts into a meditation on legacy, bridge songs, and what we actually mean when we reduce an artist to a single chart moment.

Drop your thoughts in the reviews and let us know — what's the question nobody's ever asked your favorite rapper?

Find Donwill:

🎙 The Almanac of Rap

📰 Working Creative Weekly Substack

📸 @donwill on Instagram

#QueuePoints, #BlackMusicHistory, #Donwill, #AlmanacOfRap, #HipHopJournalism, #TanyaMorgan, #HipHopPodcast

Transcript
Jay Ray:

What's up?

Jay Ray:

This episode of Queue Points is brought to you by Okayplayer's Almanac of Rap.

Jay Ray:

Enjoy the show on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, YouTube, or wherever

Jay Ray:

you enjoy your podcasts.

Jay Ray:

Peace

Sir Daniel:

Greetings and welcome to another episode of Queue Points podcast.

Sir Daniel:

I am DJ Sir Daniel.

Jay Ray:

And my name is Jay Ray, sometimes known by my government

Jay Ray:

as Johnnie Ray Kornegay III.

Jay Ray:

And Sir Daniel, I gotta say we got a legend in the building.

Sir Daniel:

We have guests.

Sir Daniel:

I've straightened up.

Sir Daniel:

I've made sure that, you know, the right lighting is, is hinting.

Sir Daniel:

The albums are straightened.

Sir Daniel:

Um, you can't see it right now.

Sir Daniel:

The sign is a little crooked.

Sir Daniel:

I didn't get to that.

Sir Daniel:

But Jay Ray, there's been a lot of hip hop conversations going on.

Sir Daniel:

You know, albums have dropped and people are just, things are things

Sir Daniel:

people are saying all kinds of stuff.

Sir Daniel:

And there's a lot of glazing, there's a lot of praising and all of it

Sir Daniel:

carrying on and all of that is fine.

Sir Daniel:

But here at Queue Points, we believe in speaking to people who are

Sir Daniel:

genuine articles of the art of hip hop, people that know what they're

Sir Daniel:

talking about, people that actually love the music and the arts, and

Sir Daniel:

the different elements of hip hop.

Sir Daniel:

So I think our guest fits all of that criteria.

Sir Daniel:

Jay Ray, what do you say?

Jay Ray:

Absolutely.

Jay Ray:

Our, our guest lives, this culture is, this culture breathes this culture.

Jay Ray:

And before we introduce him, I, I want to just do two things.

Jay Ray:

'cause what's great is there are these folks in the Queue Points universe that,

Jay Ray:

that this person is also connected to.

Jay Ray:

So we gotta shout out LiKWUiD,

Sir Daniel:

Yes.

Jay Ray:

making sure

Sir Daniel:

Much love to

Jay Ray:

this

Sir Daniel:

LiKWUiD.

Jay Ray:

happen.

Jay Ray:

Al Pete.

Jay Ray:

So he's been on Mr. Al Pete's podcast.

Jay Ray:

Of course, Mr. Al, Pete is our brother.

Jay Ray:

But, um, folks joining us on our show today is Donwill.

Jay Ray:

Donwill is a certified rap encyclopedia, or rather in Almanac ha.

Jay Ray:

He is the host of The Almanac of Rap.

Jay Ray:

Webby award-winning podcast.

Jay Ray:

A Webby award-winning Okayplayer produced podcast series.

Jay Ray:

The series combines rap conversations with deep in the

Jay Ray:

weeds, fandom and satirical humor.

Jay Ray:

All curated by Donwill himself, a former blogger who's written for the Village

Jay Ray:

Voice traded book recommendations with Lupe Fiasco and rapped with Drake.

Jay Ray:

As a member of the duo Tanya Morgan, Donwill employs a workman like approach to

Jay Ray:

the art of journalism, taking at least a week to research each episode of his show.

Jay Ray:

appreciation as much as attention to craft.

Jay Ray:

It's also why his podcast stands as a show by and for the culture.

Jay Ray:

More specifically speaking, Donwill is the culture.

Jay Ray:

He is the rapper-turned-podcaster we deserve And it is.

Jay Ray:

Without further ado, Queue Points family.

Jay Ray:

Welcome Donwill to the show.

Jay Ray:

What's

Sir Daniel:

Welcome.

Sir Daniel:

What's happening Don?

Donwill:

Listen, man, I was listening to that, to the, to the introduction,

Donwill:

the greeting, and I'm like, this for me?

Donwill:

Are

Jay Ray:

It is

Donwill:

me?

Jay Ray:

you.

Donwill:

He

Sir Daniel:

That's you.

Sir Daniel:

That's you.

Donwill:

so it must be about me, but I don't know if I know what

Donwill:

I'm talking about all the time.

Sir Daniel:

Absolutely.

Sir Daniel:

And You put in the work, you put in the hard yards to, to get this rep

Sir Daniel:

and to, you know, this reputation.

Sir Daniel:

And clearly you have a love for rap music and hip hop.

Sir Daniel:

Hip hop in general.

Sir Daniel:

Just school, our viewers and listeners right now and tell us a little

Sir Daniel:

bit about The Almanac of Rap and just this inception and why'd you

Sir Daniel:

even start calling it the Almanac?

Donwill:

So was called, initially it came about from a Twitch stream.

Donwill:

I used to do, um, I had a, I used to stream on Twitch during the pandemic

Donwill:

and a friend of mine, DJ Lindsay, had a show on Sonos Radio called, think

Donwill:

it was called Black is, um, but it was just a show about just black culture and

Donwill:

black, really black musical touchpoints and things within the black community.

Donwill:

And she would come to my Twitch stream and I would like do

Donwill:

these like rants about artists.

Donwill:

I have, I had a rant about LL Cool J as one of the most ridiculous people to ever.

Donwill:

Just a ridiculous man.

Jay Ray:

I wanna hear this rant

Sir Daniel:

Listen, you've got my attention.

Jay Ray:

right.

Donwill:

will give you the abbreviated version.

Donwill:

LL Cool J has been unhinged the entire time.

Donwill:

He's maniacal.

Donwill:

Like from seeing him on the I'm bad video running down the street and then

Donwill:

jumping around a condemned warehouse, like I was like, oh, this man is special.

Donwill:

And he's proven to be as special as we think he is.

Donwill:

Up until like, like, uh, the "Deepest, bluest, my hat is like a shark's fin."

Jay Ray:

Yeah.

Jay Ray:

Yeah.

Donwill:

So imagine an hour's worth of that with music and

Donwill:

commentary and stopping the song and like talking about the lyrics.

Donwill:

And my friend was like, you should really look at like, adapting this

Donwill:

into a show and trying to like make a show about I don't know what, but I

Donwill:

think you have the personality for it.

Donwill:

Um, and prior to that I had been podcasting before.

Donwill:

I had a show called a Book of Rhymes where I, um, just interviewed lyric

Donwill:

interviewed artists about their catalog and about their lyrics.

Donwill:

Before that, I had a podcast called Bad With Names, where I

Donwill:

would just interview friends and people about whatever, you know.

Donwill:

was more or less just about the art of conversation, just talking to people.

Donwill:

Um, I've always had like a, I. I don't know.

Donwill:

I just really like recording and I like the audio space.

Jay Ray:

Yeah.

Donwill:

know, like outside of doing lyric, outside of rapping and

Donwill:

recording lyrics, it just lent itself to spending more time with voices.

Donwill:

Like getting in the DAW and getting in the dig digital audio

Donwill:

workstation and editing the voices and like putting effects on there.

Donwill:

Like it's, it is just so much fun for me to play in that way.

Donwill:

Um, the show itself, the Almanac rap, so all of that to say, um, I,

Donwill:

I do have a deep care for hip hop.

Sir Daniel:

Mm.

Donwill:

And I have a deep, deep care for interviewing and for treating guests

Donwill:

a certain way because as an artist myself, I do remember, I remember good

Donwill:

interviews and I remember bad interviews.

Donwill:

I remember interviews where you would show up and the person would

Donwill:

be like, and what's your name?

Donwill:

What, what did you, what did you do?

Donwill:

Who are, what do you do?

Sir Daniel:

Yeah.

Donwill:

you would get thrown into like a, like basically just you would

Donwill:

get thrown into a conversation with a stranger who hadn't done any research

Donwill:

because either their team hadn't researched them or they just didn't do it.

Donwill:

And part of the reason why I take so long to do my research is because I

Donwill:

at least want to have like a working knowledge of the person I'm talking to.

Jay Ray:

Hmm.

Donwill:

I have had, I, like, I like a week, but I have had like interviews that

Donwill:

I've had to turn around in like 24 hours,

Jay Ray:

Yeah.

Donwill:

And I think that, that the way that my anxiety is set

Donwill:

up, you can't really tell if it's been a week or 48 hours.

Sir Daniel:

Yeah, no, I could relate to that.

Sir Daniel:

I could relate to that as a, as a dj, like, especially when we're talking about

Sir Daniel:

vinyl, I need to know what I'm playing.

Sir Daniel:

Like I know, I, I know several DJs that just bring crates with them,

Jay Ray:

records

Sir Daniel:

and they just, they're just like, Hmm, eh,

Sir Daniel:

I guess I'll just play this.

Sir Daniel:

And I'm like, the way my anxiety is set up cannot, cannot.

Sir Daniel:

And I, I, I appreciate that as well with regards to interviewing, because

Sir Daniel:

we put the same amount of care into what we do here at Queue Points.

Sir Daniel:

So, Jay Ray, I think we, we've met another cousin.

Sir Daniel:

We've definitely, uh, akin, this is definitely kinfolk here.

Jay Ray:

Absolutely.

Donwill:

could tell by the, uh, by the guest email, like

Donwill:

the email that was sent to

Jay Ray:

Oh, we do like that.

Donwill:

Yeah.

Donwill:

I, I was like, I, I know what I'm getting into it.

Donwill:

I felt very comfortable,

Sir Daniel:

Yeah.

Donwill:

comfortable coming onto the show.

Donwill:

Like, I've, I've gotten somewhere.

Donwill:

I'm just like, let's see how this turns out.

Jay Ray:

So glad.

Donwill:

Shout out to anybody that wants to talk to me at all.

Donwill:

Like, I, I

Jay Ray:

Yes.

Donwill:

anybody that's willing to share their platform with me, but a

Donwill:

show goes that extra mile to really just care about the details and buttoning

Donwill:

things down and making sure that the guest feels like their time is going

Donwill:

to be respected in a way, you know, that's the thing that I care the most

Donwill:

about is making sure my guests know that I respect their time and the fact

Donwill:

that they show up for me, you know?

Jay Ray:

And that's what we definitely strive to do.

Jay Ray:

And I'm so glad you had that experience, brother.

Jay Ray:

We appreciate that note.

Jay Ray:

Um, I, I, moving from, so there's the stage, there's all the stuff you do

Jay Ray:

musically, and then of course being in this, uh, this, this podcast space

Jay Ray:

in this current moment, what are some things that are the same that you

Jay Ray:

bring from that world into this work?

Jay Ray:

And what are some things that you're like, Ooh, I've had to really learn how to do

Jay Ray:

this and really, really figure it out?

Donwill:

I think the thing that I've had to learn how to do more

Donwill:

than anything is be present.

Donwill:

And it's gonna sound really weird, but I think that, you know, as a DJ you

Donwill:

can relate, um, sometimes when you're performing whatever your craft is and

Donwill:

you've rehearsed it and done it so many times, you can go to autopilot.

Donwill:

Like, I, like, there's so many countless stories of artists and other people

Donwill:

who will be on stage and be doing the, the hit song and be like, yeah,

Donwill:

I was thinking about what we got, what we gonna eat later after the show.

Donwill:

Or I had to think like, you get so distracted by the life that you're living

Donwill:

the other things, the external forces in that life that sometimes it's hard to

Donwill:

really ground yourself in that moment.

Donwill:

so sometimes when I was on stage, like I have to remember to be present on stage.

Jay Ray:

Yeah.

Donwill:

remember like, you're in front of X amount of people performing a song.

Donwill:

Just because you know the words and your body understands exactly what to do.

Donwill:

When this bar comes, still lock in.

Donwill:

'cause, so on the flip, when you're in a conversation with a person.

Donwill:

Like you have to lock in.

Jay Ray:

Yeah.

Donwill:

be distracted, especially when it's being recorded because it

Donwill:

comes off, you know what I'm saying?

Donwill:

that's one of the main things that I, you know, that I've,

Donwill:

I've had to like, adjust to.

Donwill:

But something that I brought from the music space, um, and

Donwill:

brought from performance space.

Donwill:

Is just curiosity.

Donwill:

I'll say that,

Jay Ray:

Yeah.

Donwill:

um, you know, like really, like when you're writing a rhyme or when you're

Donwill:

looking for a record for a mix, or when you're looking for a sample, you almost

Donwill:

have to be curious in a different sort of way, like in a way that makes you unique.

Donwill:

Like, I always say that I like to think of, think about the questions that

Donwill:

I pose in interviews as being things that are just outside of the frame.

Jay Ray:

Yeah.

Donwill:

know what I'm saying?

Donwill:

It's like you see a picture and you see somebody in a picture

Donwill:

in like the background, like

Sir Daniel:

Yeah.

Sir Daniel:

Yeah.

Jay Ray:

Yes.

Donwill:

like, well, what was he pointing at?

Jay Ray:

Right.

Donwill:

you, you start to go through a whole forensic essay and of like,

Donwill:

okay, so they're in a supper club and the light was demo over there,

Donwill:

so maybe he couldn't see like you.

Donwill:

And that's, that's where my mind usually goes is I'm always trying

Donwill:

to figure out a interesting angle to talk to a person that may have been

Donwill:

talked to a million times or that may have never been talked to, you know?

Jay Ray:

Man, you, you, that clearly comes across in The Almanac of Rap.

Jay Ray:

So I'm going to give people, I'm gonna give y'all a spoiler for one

Jay Ray:

of the things that you'll experience if you check out Donwill's show.

Jay Ray:

So I was checking out the Raekwon show you asked him one of the most

Jay Ray:

fascinating questions, and you was like, why was the tape purple?

Jay Ray:

And I said, why was

Sir Daniel:

Huh?

Jay Ray:

purple?

Sir Daniel:

Huh.

Jay Ray:

And to have him be like, actually it was supposed to be

Jay Ray:

green, but they didn't have green.

Jay Ray:

I said, that is the best question ever.

Donwill:

the best because the thing is you just assume like, oh, he

Donwill:

wanted it to be purple the whole time.

Donwill:

'cause like purple is the color of royalty.

Donwill:

It means so much.

Donwill:

It's also one of those colors that like, it speaks volumes.

Donwill:

If you

Jay Ray:

Yes.

Donwill:

purple, you'd notice it.

Donwill:

And if you see, if you see green, it doesn't really, I mean, I love green,

Donwill:

but it doesn't really hit the same

Jay Ray:

Yeah.

Donwill:

Like green is more of a grounding color, and purple is more

Donwill:

like this kind of opulent royal color.

Donwill:

So for me, when he said it was like, oh, it was supposed to be

Donwill:

green, I was just like, what?

Jay Ray:

Right.

Jay Ray:

Like, but why?

Donwill:

yeah, if, if, if the multiverse is real and we go back in time to

Donwill:

when Raekwon dropped the green tape, I don't, I don't think it would've hit

Donwill:

the same, you know, I think, I think that that, I think that the marketing

Donwill:

of the purple tape, even saying the

Jay Ray:

The real tape.

Donwill:

it's more fun with a two syllable word, with a, p puck gr

Donwill:

like, just thinking about the, the syllables in the word like.

Donwill:

Green tape.

Donwill:

Don't really got that, but purple.

Donwill:

You got, you have to reckon with the word purple.

Donwill:

You have to like say it.

Jay Ray:

Yes.

Donwill:

you can't, you can't really like just lazily say purple.

Jay Ray:

No.

Donwill:

say green.

Donwill:

You know what

Sir Daniel:

Yeah, you, you definitely have to take your knife

Sir Daniel:

and fork with it, slice it up.

Sir Daniel:

You, you just can't devour that and just try to swallow that

Sir Daniel:

whole, that's absolutely correct.

Sir Daniel:

And that's the mark of someone who takes their craft seriously.

Sir Daniel:

And, um, we talk about music journalism and hip hop journalism

Sir Daniel:

is spoken a lot of lately, has been spoken a lot of these days.

Sir Daniel:

And you know,

Jay Ray:

Hmm.

Sir Daniel:

anybody can get a microphone and, you know, set up

Sir Daniel:

some cameras and, you know, have conversations like who's your, who's

Sir Daniel:

your favorite top five dead or alive

Jay Ray:

Yes.

Sir Daniel:

until the cows come home.

Sir Daniel:

But Donwill, what are the conversations that we're not having in hip hop?

Sir Daniel:

What are the conversations that we should be having right now in

Sir Daniel:

this state of the, the state of the music, the state of the world?

Sir Daniel:

What are the conversations that you think that we should be having?

Sir Daniel:

Instead of things that might be a little, you know, banal that people keep talking

Sir Daniel:

about over and over again in these spaces.

Donwill:

Hmm.

Donwill:

think that a conversation that's starting to bubble to the surface,

Donwill:

because it has to, is not even ageism, but just aging into hip hop and just,

Donwill:

you know, like, like a lot of, a lot of artists we, we love are entering

Donwill:

their fifties or leaving their forties, or, you know what I'm saying?

Donwill:

Like, so that, that aspect of, of just being an adult, it's, it's something that

Donwill:

comes up in conversation because when you, if you interview De La Soul or you

Donwill:

interview Common or you know, MC Lyte or Pete Rock, you, like, you almost have to

Donwill:

talk about adulthood in a different way.

Donwill:

I mean, you, you don't have to, but they bring that into the room with them.

Donwill:

So their answers are gonna be different.

Donwill:

Like, like if you asking somebody like, yo, what do you do after a show?

Donwill:

And they're like, I go to sleep.

Jay Ray:

Right.

Donwill:

It's

Jay Ray:

Yeah.

Donwill:

you asked them, ask them when,

Jay Ray:

Right.

Donwill:

put on some Icy Hot, I'm wrapping I'm wrapping my knee.

Donwill:

But you asked them that 20 years ago and it's like, ah, man, we going to the

Donwill:

club and the studio and Whoopty whoop.

Donwill:

Or you know, like, just in terms of like their, their wellness

Donwill:

routine and like how they, how they recuperate from studio or the tour.

Donwill:

So that sort of thing is something that I feel like is being talked about more.

Donwill:

Something that I don't think is being talked about enough in general.

Donwill:

Ah, man, it's tough because nothing's being talked about.

Jay Ray:

Let's go.

Jay Ray:

No, I mean, let's, no, let's stay there.

Donwill:

say I, I don't wanna say nothing.

Donwill:

I don't wanna be like salacious for the sake of having a thing.

Donwill:

But I will say that lot of hip hop journalism and a lot of outlets can't

Donwill:

really, they can't compete with Instagram and they can't compete with social media.

Donwill:

So they're kind of beholden to, you know, just asking the same old

Donwill:

questions or asking questions that, asking questions about Instagram.

Donwill:

'cause they're

Sir Daniel:

Right.

Donwill:

up with the thing that's happening.

Donwill:

So, you know, they're not taking a chance to look the, the fullness

Donwill:

of an artist or the fullness of their personhood or career.

Donwill:

They're just focused on like, so you, you, I saw a post where you was

Donwill:

like, you were going back and forth with Bootsy, tell me about that.

Donwill:

Or some shit.

Donwill:

And it's not really you know.

Sir Daniel:

like, so, so let's just stay there for a second.

Sir Daniel:

So.

Sir Daniel:

We talk a lot about gatekeeping here on Queue Points and you know, not

Sir Daniel:

inviting everybody to the cookout

Jay Ray:

Yeah.

Donwill:

Mm-hmm.

Sir Daniel:

so there are a lot of conversations I feel are not being

Sir Daniel:

handled, talking about maturity, are not being handled with maturity, are not being

Sir Daniel:

handled with, um, with any kind of finesse or pro, just a lot of gotcha moments.

Sir Daniel:

There's a lot of sensationalism and so it's like, who, how do the, the

Sir Daniel:

formats, how do the people that, the platforms that are actually taking the

Sir Daniel:

gig seriously and wanting to have those conversations, how do we uplift that

Sir Daniel:

and how do we offset the algorithm to pick, pick that up more instead of,

Sir Daniel:

you know, the clip, the clip baits that we're getting that're being fed.

Donwill:

I, I think that.

Donwill:

It's.

Donwill:

I'm trying to think of, trying to formulate my thoughts correctly

Donwill:

because like we're at the point where the clip is the whole thing.

Donwill:

the clip

Jay Ray:

Yeah.

Donwill:

you know, we we're recording this conversation for your listeners

Donwill:

and the people who watch the whole thing are gonna get it, but there are

Donwill:

people who will only encounter whatever clip goes out and that's, that's the

Donwill:

end and beginning of the relationship.

Donwill:

You know what I'm saying?

Donwill:

And I'm fully aware of that now, and I understand that there's a,

Donwill:

a art to the clip and making sure that the clip is at least poignant

Donwill:

enough to cause a conversation in the space that it exists in.

Donwill:

but you know, the other thing is that, and I don't know if this answers the question,

Donwill:

Budin along, like, he, he was the first person that I remember saying the word

Donwill:

poin, like P-O-D-D-I-N, like, oh, oh.

Donwill:

Now we podding, like when things are getting meaty in the podcast

Donwill:

and I don't think people really.

Donwill:

Understood the gravity of that word when he

Jay Ray:

Yeah.

Donwill:

it.

Donwill:

And I'm, I'm, when I say the gravity, I mean like when he says, now we're

Donwill:

podding, that means now we're in character of, of who we are for the audience, the

Donwill:

forward facing character of the podcast.

Donwill:

Like if your podcast is a red pill thing, then that's when

Donwill:

you get, that's when you do it.

Donwill:

That's when you in it.

Donwill:

If your podcast is a financial podcast and you really in a, in a

Donwill:

bag talking about some, some finance shit, that's when you're podding.

Donwill:

So I think that people just assume that the people on the microphones

Donwill:

are who they are the whole time.

Sir Daniel:

Mm-hmm.

Donwill:

sometimes you're just, they're just in character

Jay Ray:

Right.

Donwill:

and those are the, those are the things that get clipped up and I

Donwill:

think that the best way to combat it.

Donwill:

Brother, I, it's gonna sound dire, but I don't know if we can comment.

Jay Ray:

That's real.

Donwill:

man.

Donwill:

I think we here and I think that our job, I think that our job as media

Donwill:

and content creators and artists is to do whatever our version of that is.

Donwill:

Like get in our bag, get in, get in our, like our character and embody

Donwill:

whatever moment that we're in is.

Donwill:

So like if I'm, if I'm talking to Raekwon about the color of the tape and

Donwill:

he said some real shit, there we are.

Jay Ray:

Yeah.

Donwill:

you service that.

Donwill:

Or know, I think, I think the, it was not even a fight fire with fire,

Donwill:

it's just to let that bitch burn.

Donwill:

Sorry for cussing.

Donwill:

Sorry for cussing.

Jay Ray:

You are good.

Jay Ray:

this is leading me to a, a, a place.

Jay Ray:

And I'm, I'm curious about this, like when you put on your, your artist hat, right?

Jay Ray:

Um, it is different in this moment.

Jay Ray:

Shout also.

Jay Ray:

Shout out.

Jay Ray:

It's the 20th anniversary of Moonlighting, actually.

Jay Ray:

So 2006 is when that record came out.

Jay Ray:

Y'all came in right at that time when everything was shifting.

Jay Ray:

Literally all the widgets were moving at that moment in 2006.

Jay Ray:

Uh, to where kind of moving us to where we are now.

Jay Ray:

Now there isn't, when artists need to get put on, they're using their social, they

Jay Ray:

have to build their audiences themselves now basically before they get put on.

Jay Ray:

but for those artists that are like, listen, I'm good at making beats.

Jay Ray:

I'm good at getting on the mic.

Jay Ray:

What I am not good at is getting on social media and, and selling y'all

Jay Ray:

and cooking y'all grilled cheese.

Jay Ray:

I can't do that.

Jay Ray:

What do you say to those folks that are like, that are talented and are,

Jay Ray:

are like, the world needs to hear you, but they need to break through.

Jay Ray:

Like, what, what advice would you give them as somebody who's been

Jay Ray:

doing this on all sides of this?

Donwill:

Yeah, I'm dealing with it too.

Donwill:

Um, and the hardest part about it is, you know, figuring out.

Donwill:

How to make yourself palatable outside of your talent to a audience

Donwill:

that you didn't think you had to make yourself palatable to.

Donwill:

So it's sort of like, it's sort of like you built these audiences on these

Donwill:

social platforms thinking that you have an audience and you're actually

Donwill:

just building a collection of people that particular platform to advertise

Donwill:

other things too, because they follow you and they know who you are.

Donwill:

So I think that, you know, the thing that I've been kind of trying to figure

Donwill:

out with my content, because you know, you gotta just call it what it is.

Donwill:

Call it spade a spade, is understanding that,

Donwill:

I recorded an album.

Donwill:

I made an album.

Donwill:

Me and a producer, The Expert, we sat down, made this album, done.

Donwill:

It sounds fantastic.

Donwill:

It's 12 14 songs.

Donwill:

Now, how do you make content about that?

Donwill:

Because that's not the content, that's the art.

Donwill:

do

Sir Daniel:

Alright.

Donwill:

content about the art?

Donwill:

And even within that.

Donwill:

How do you do it in a way that's true to you?

Donwill:

you know, we can use all the, the terminology, the ick and all that shit.

Donwill:

It, it, that's not really a, that's not really a thing if you're

Donwill:

trying to market and promote.

Donwill:

It is a thing.

Donwill:

It's a thing if you're doing it in a way that's out of character for who you are.

Donwill:

But you know, like if.

Donwill:

Like if you do cook and that's what you do, you know, just turn

Donwill:

on the camera, cook a meal, and then place your audio over it.

Jay Ray:

Yeah.

Donwill:

say something to camera like, like, there's a

Donwill:

million ways to skin a cat.

Donwill:

But the thing that I've been resting, my resting easy about with it all is

Donwill:

that I, a saying that I have is that the typos now are more important than

Donwill:

ever because AI is about perfection.

Jay Ray:

Yeah, buddy.

Donwill:

if you can be as human as you can, you can be full

Donwill:

of errors, you can, whatever.

Donwill:

You gotta, whatever you do, don't feel bad about it.

Donwill:

Not shining through with this perfect sheen because you

Donwill:

got robots dancing in China.

Donwill:

You know what I'm saying?

Donwill:

You got you.

Sir Daniel:

Terribly, by the way.

Donwill:

I love seeing robots bust their

Jay Ray:

Right.

Donwill:

you got.

Donwill:

Yeah, they glitch out.

Donwill:

you know, you got, you got robot food delivery carts.

Donwill:

The

Jay Ray:

Yeah.

Donwill:

themselves, the, the po, the ai, you can make AI podcast.

Donwill:

They're making this so that you can now do remixes of songs with ai.

Donwill:

They're doing all these things because they just have the data and they're,

Donwill:

they're essentially, they're bored.

Donwill:

You know what I'm saying?

Donwill:

When I say bored, that's probably the wrong word.

Donwill:

But just have this technology and they're trying to find all

Donwill:

these other ways to implement it.

Donwill:

And I'm like, just build a robot to make mining safer.

Donwill:

Go, go put a robot in the fucking mind so people don't lose arms

Donwill:

and shit, but, you know, whatever.

Donwill:

So I know, I, I know I took a long tangent, uh, long way of saying

Donwill:

this, but the short answer is.

Donwill:

You know, it's gonna sound very, uh, what's the word?

Donwill:

not stereotypical, it's gonna sound, um, cliche, it's gonna sound very

Donwill:

cliche, but you just gotta be yourself.

Donwill:

Just be you, just cut on the camera and be exactly who you are.

Donwill:

Um, and again, that's something that I've been griping dealing with because, um,

Donwill:

I don't like the forward facing camera,

Sir Daniel:

Oh, okay.

Jay Ray:

and your podcast is, is video now too.

Donwill:

It is video.

Donwill:

Uh, it's because not filming myself so I don't have to,

Jay Ray:

Uh, so you don't have to worry about it.

Jay Ray:

You have a, yeah.

Sir Daniel:

Right.

Donwill:

it's, it's much easier for me.

Donwill:

It's for me anyway, it's much easier to have someone filming me and making

Donwill:

decisions on what they think looks good aesthetically than me filming myself.

Donwill:

and that's, that's been my hangup all the time.

Donwill:

It's like, I, you, you don't really see too much of me Instagram,

Donwill:

like doing the, yo, what's up?

Donwill:

It's done.

Donwill:

Will, you know what I'm saying?

Donwill:

I'm just, just checking in to tell you.

Donwill:

I don't do that a lot because I just, I'm just not comfortable with it all the time.

Sir Daniel:

Yeah.

Donwill:

and it's just something that you have to get comfortable with.

Donwill:

just have to.

Sir Daniel:

And that's fair.

Sir Daniel:

That's very fair.

Sir Daniel:

Um, you know, I, I think it might be generational.

Sir Daniel:

'cause I know, you know, some, me, for me, like the, it is kind of foreign, you know,

Sir Daniel:

um, having a camera and talking into it.

Sir Daniel:

Now talking into a tape recorder, that's different.

Sir Daniel:

You know, again, generational.

Sir Daniel:

But knowing that you're, you've, you're able to continue and to shine just

Sir Daniel:

being yourself and like you said, um, not be artificial intelligence, but to

Sir Daniel:

be yourself, be human and have flaws.

Sir Daniel:

What does being supported by Okayplayer

Sir Daniel:

mean to you in that sense?

Sir Daniel:

That, 'cause it sounds like, Okayplayer is okay with you being the way

Sir Daniel:

you're, you know what I'm saying?

Donwill:

like that.

Donwill:

I like that.

Donwill:

Yeah.

Donwill:

It's, it's a, it's a, a, a full circle moment.

Donwill:

Like it's a, and even even thinking about how the album was 20 years old, like

Jay Ray:

Yeah.

Donwill:

around the time I logged onto the website for the first time.

Donwill:

It was in

Jay Ray:

Das crazy.

Jay Ray:

Yeah.

Donwill:

was.

Donwill:

Yeah.

Donwill:

So like, you know, walking into the offices and seeing like, you know, they

Donwill:

have a little timeline of events and like my, my group's Morgan stuff is back there

Donwill:

in oh six and then I'm up there in 2026.

Donwill:

it's a really wild feeling.

Donwill:

Um, Okayplayer has been nothing but supportive, helpful.

Donwill:

Um, and in terms of cha turning the, turning the, podcast into a

Donwill:

video show, been like, they have a vision for it, you know, like,

Donwill:

I definitely had the audio thing.

Donwill:

I knew exactly what I was doing exactly, but when you start

Donwill:

pointing cameras at me, I'm like, I don't, I don't, I don't know, man.

Donwill:

So shout out to shout out to them over there.

Donwill:

You know what I'm saying?

Donwill:

Because the whole staff over there, the whole team, because they, they 1000%, um.

Donwill:

Made the, made the Video podcast what it was like.

Donwill:

I, I didn't, I don't, I don't take credit for the video

Donwill:

aspect of the podcast at all.

Donwill:

know, I do have a vis, I do have input and I do have say, and I do

Donwill:

have like a, you know, we should do X, Y, Z, the way you have to approach

Donwill:

video, and this might be why this might be touching on the conversation

Donwill:

about the front face of camera.

Donwill:

There's a way you have to approach the visual image and treat the

Donwill:

visual image that, you know, wanted it to look a certain way, if you

Donwill:

want it to be a certain thing.

Donwill:

Like, I, I can't, I don't have that sauce.

Jay Ray:

So you were just opening act, Michelle Buteau was on tour big things.

Jay Ray:

Congratulations for you

Sir Daniel:

Earth.

Jay Ray:

to do that work.

Jay Ray:

Right.

Jay Ray:

Um, so there's two things in that.

Jay Ray:

One, um, I saw that you released very recently actually a, a video clip

Jay Ray:

of your set a, I think it was, it was a Vegas show that you had done.

Jay Ray:

And what I loved about it was you did like three things in there.

Jay Ray:

You dj, you rap, and the crowd work was really important.

Jay Ray:

And then I learned in the research to this that you have a comedy background.

Jay Ray:

I don't know how I missed that in your background, you

Jay Ray:

did some work at comedy too.

Jay Ray:

So two things.

Jay Ray:

what was the hardest part about prepping for being the opening act on those shows

Jay Ray:

and how important was that crowd work to like sticking the landing for you?

Donwill:

Oh man.

Donwill:

Both.

Donwill:

In both.

Donwill:

Yes and yes.

Donwill:

The hardest thing about prepping for those shows

Donwill:

figuring out how to make my music translate to a universal audience.

Donwill:

because, you know, if, if any, if any listeners out there that

Donwill:

aren't familiar with the music that I make, it is backpack rap.

Donwill:

It is Boom, bap.

Donwill:

We do have some songs that are, you know, danceable, singable.

Donwill:

But for the most part, my solo catalog, you have to search for a hook.

Donwill:

just like, I don't know what's happening.

Donwill:

is a DJ scratch and it is a fucking,

Jay Ray:

Yeah.

Donwill:

for minutes.

Donwill:

It's, it's, it's very artful hip hop.

Donwill:

It's

Sir Daniel:

Yes.

Donwill:

And like I do what I do in a way that I've cultivated enjoys

Jay Ray:

Yes.

Donwill:

and going in front of her audience, 'cause I've been DJing for her

Donwill:

and working with her a long time now.

Donwill:

Like I did our last tour with her as well.

Jay Ray:

Okay.

Sir Daniel:

Nice.

Donwill:

DJ'ed that tour.

Donwill:

I didn't, I didn't like perform.

Donwill:

I just DJ'ed and then we had a op, have an opening act from city to city.

Donwill:

But the thing that I learned on that run was that.

Donwill:

Her audience is very diverse and gauges, gauges slightly out of the age range

Donwill:

of what my demographic is musically.

Donwill:

Um, so, you know, even within the DJ set, like I'm not,

Donwill:

I'm not playing respectfully.

Donwill:

I'm not playing like tribe or ll or, you know, like I'm, I'm, I'm playing

Donwill:

like, that that audience wants to hear.

Donwill:

It's not really a, like if it's, if it's some rap shit, it's the girls, it's like

Jay Ray:

Yeah.

Donwill:

like, you know, like city Girls is a lot for them,

Donwill:

So it, for me it was just, okay, what do I do to make these songs appeal?

Donwill:

And part of it was two songs.

Donwill:

I, I, I did a, I did a beat switch on one song, and then on another song

Donwill:

I just did a whole different beat.

Donwill:

because I figured that if I could just make the, the sound bed

Donwill:

interesting enough, the message would be cut through still.

Donwill:

And then within that, also the crowd work and engaging the audience

Donwill:

was a big part of it because.

Donwill:

The thing about rap shows and the thing about shows in general, if you're not

Donwill:

familiar with the artist, especially rap, just a lot of words coming at you really

Jay Ray:

Yeah.

Donwill:

It's just a lot of like, you know what I'm saying?

Donwill:

Me semi angry whatever the thing is or it is it, won't say it's not musical,

Donwill:

but it's not singing, singing, I think, I think if you're watching a person

Donwill:

singing for the first time, it's fine.

Donwill:

You're like, oh, okay, this person, oh, they can sing cool.

Donwill:

But a rap act for the first time, it gives you so much more space

Donwill:

to it on, on a different metric.

Donwill:

so that was the crowd work thing was fun because it was also very rewarding.

Donwill:

It's like kept calling it like a magic trick, by the time I

Donwill:

get through the first song.

Donwill:

Like, people are just applauding.

Jay Ray:

Yes.

Donwill:

yeah, and some of that applause.

Donwill:

I'm gonna keep it funky.

Donwill:

Some of that applause is like, okay, this is over.

Donwill:

We, we get the headliner.

Donwill:

And I'm like, no, you don't.

Sir Daniel:

Alright,

Jay Ray:

I

Sir Daniel:

Bring her on.

Donwill:

But so, so that's what makes the crowd work important.

Donwill:

For the most part, for the most part, not even, for the most

Donwill:

part, the, the reception that I got was overwhelmingly positive.

Donwill:

it just, 'cause the other thing too is that I don't really do

Donwill:

solo shows I've been, I've been hiding in plain sight as a dj.

Donwill:

Like I found a way to be on stage and be involved in, in, in the, the, the,

Donwill:

the night, but not be even be front and center, but not be like the focal point.

Donwill:

When I dj it's about the music.

Donwill:

It's just, I'm, I'm enjoying the music as much as the audience is

Donwill:

and I'm also reading the room.

Donwill:

So there's a lot of, you know, there's a lot of different things that go into

Donwill:

a DJ set that would, you know, it's a different muscle for me than rapping.

Donwill:

And this was the first time where like Michelle flat out was like,

Donwill:

the end of our last tour, this is how, this is how me performing on

Donwill:

her, opening on her show came to be.

Donwill:

She was like.

Donwill:

She just walked.

Donwill:

We were at the, I think we were in the beacon.

Donwill:

She was like, how come you don't rap?

Donwill:

And I was like, what do you mean?

Donwill:

And she was like, she's like, you are a rapper.

Donwill:

a whole like career albums.

Donwill:

come you haven't been rapping?

Donwill:

And I was like, I think I was just like, I didn't know I could do that.

Donwill:

I said, whatever I said was just, and she was like, you should rap.

Donwill:

And I was like, okay.

Donwill:

Then the next night she came back like, you're gonna rap.

Donwill:

And I was like, okay.

Donwill:

Then the tour ended.

Donwill:

That tour ended.

Donwill:

before this tour started, she was like, hit me up like

Donwill:

maybe two months in advance.

Donwill:

Like, so you're opening the tour, um, you have 20 minutes.

Donwill:

Figure out whatever you're gonna do, but it will be rap.

Jay Ray:

I love that.

Jay Ray:

See how your friends push you.

Sir Daniel:

Yes.

Jay Ray:

community like pushing

Sir Daniel:

Super important.

Jay Ray:

man.

Donwill:

And, and it's, it's so funny, like, 'cause that's one

Donwill:

of the most unlikely sources for a person to push you to rap is a

Donwill:

comedy comedian in the comedy space.

Donwill:

And she, she's like, I, I, man, I have nothing but like glowing,

Donwill:

kind, beautiful words from Michelle.

Donwill:

Like, she's one of my favorite people.

Donwill:

Uh, she's a really good friend and she like the, the, the stuff you

Donwill:

see and the, the message, it's not just, it's literally baked into her.

Donwill:

DNA, like she is one of the most giving kind people I know.

Donwill:

And she's funny,

Sir Daniel:

Super funny.

Sir Daniel:

She's hilarious.

Donwill:

but she also, you, like, she's not, she don't take

Donwill:

no shit, you know, she's, she's ever, like, I love her to death.

Donwill:

I love her to death, and I, I'm eternally grateful for her letting me, you

Donwill:

know, pull out the raps real quick for

Jay Ray:

Yes.

Donwill:

enjoyed it.

Sir Daniel:

you know, it's so funny how, I guess this is just

Sir Daniel:

a, a testament to how life.

Sir Daniel:

Doesn't, it doesn't always turn out the way you, you thought it was going

Sir Daniel:

to be, but still, like 20 years ago, you're thinking, yo, I'm, I'm a mc.

Sir Daniel:

I'm just, I'm gonna hold it down and, you know, I'm gonna wrap my

Sir Daniel:

raps and people are gonna love it.

Sir Daniel:

Um, I also like the dj, you know, 'cause that's what I do.

Sir Daniel:

I'm a bboy.

Sir Daniel:

I know how to DJ as well.

Sir Daniel:

I live this hip hop stuff.

Sir Daniel:

But then comedy and, and hip hop are ha go hand in hand.

Sir Daniel:

Quite frankly.

Sir Daniel:

Our, our cu, our ca culture has really joined the two of

Sir Daniel:

them together quite a bit.

Sir Daniel:

And so who knew that preparing yourself back then as an mc and as

Sir Daniel:

a DJ would lead you to this point?

Sir Daniel:

You know, so it's just like, you just all the, the, the, all the, the, the practice

Sir Daniel:

hours that you logged, I mean, it.

Sir Daniel:

It was for a purpose, and here you are now.

Sir Daniel:

So that's gotta feel really good when you look back and you, you see, you know, I've

Sir Daniel:

accomplished this, this is what I did.

Donwill:

I think about it a lot and I mean, um, especially with that tour,

Donwill:

like there were just moments where like outside of the, outside of the opening

Donwill:

performance, like rapping, I would just, like, when I would, I would go back,

Donwill:

I would resume the op, the role of dj, and Michelle would be doing comedy and

Donwill:

she'd turn around, like we'd have banter.

Donwill:

rap got me here.

Sir Daniel:

Yeah.

Donwill:

I think about it so many times, like, like I, you know, like,

Donwill:

I'm like, I'm in so many different rooms and so many different spaces

Donwill:

that I wouldn't have dreamed of being in because my vision for what.

Donwill:

What my path would be was so narrow.

Donwill:

It was like, I'm going to rap, I'm going to tour.

Donwill:

I remember the first job that I, well, not first, like, one of the last jobs I ever

Donwill:

quit was around early two thousands, and my boss was like, what are you gonna do?

Donwill:

I was like, I'm going on tour.

Donwill:

I'm gonna be a rapper.

Donwill:

And she was like, oh, I, I, you might wanna rethink that.

Donwill:

I'll, I'll give you a, I'll give you a 30 day grace period.

Donwill:

I was like, no, no, no.

Donwill:

The tour is 45 days.

Donwill:

I won't be back.

Donwill:

It's fine.

Donwill:

Within, within a month of that tour, I was like, uh, I think I need to go back.

Donwill:

I didn't go back though.

Donwill:

go back, but like, like the dedication and just like like,

Donwill:

no, this is what's gonna happen.

Donwill:

I'm gonna do it.

Donwill:

And also being open to whatever.

Donwill:

Being open to positive experiences and being open to

Donwill:

new experiences and learning.

Donwill:

all got me here in the same way, you know what I'm saying?

Donwill:

But like, it, it is just.

Donwill:

Sometimes I'll just be like at a random place like, like I DJ the Amby and I'm

Jay Ray:

Yeah.

Sir Daniel:

Yeah.

Donwill:

presenting awards and I'm like.

Donwill:

I just used to rap.

Sir Daniel:

Who to thunk it.

Jay Ray:

Who the

Sir Daniel:

to thunk it.

Donwill:

thunk it?

Donwill:

I was in my bedroom making demos and now I'm, this is crazy, but it's never crazy.

Donwill:

It's just, it's, it's, it's not even about it being crazy.

Donwill:

It's about it being just your ministry.

Sir Daniel:

Yeah.

Jay Ray:

Ooh.

Donwill:

Being your thing.

Donwill:

You know what I'm saying?

Donwill:

Like you're really like, like to to, to back to what I was saying about Joe Button

Donwill:

and the pod, like if you in your bag, if you just in your life bag, it works out.

Jay Ray:

It works out.

Jay Ray:

I don't even know.

Jay Ray:

This is gonna be interesting then, 'cause I'm curious to know what your, your answer

Jay Ray:

is, uh, to this next question, but what are you gra on the artistic side, um,

Jay Ray:

outside of pod, outside of podcasting?

Jay Ray:

Like what are you gravitating more to these days?

Jay Ray:

Is it like DJing is like the thing, the thing has rapping, like raised

Jay Ray:

back up since you've done the tour?

Jay Ray:

Like what, what's like the thing that you're gravitating

Jay Ray:

to the most right now and why?

Donwill:

So rap is my first language.

Donwill:

It's my fluency.

Donwill:

Um, I do have an album coming out, like I'm, I'm, I'm going to make a rap album.

Donwill:

I'm, I'm always gonna make some music.

Donwill:

So I have an album coming out in the fall with this guy, The Expert,

Donwill:

really dope producer from Ireland.

Donwill:

Uh, it's very boom bap.

Donwill:

It's, it's exactly what you would expect a man who made moonlighting to make.

Jay Ray:

Yes.

Donwill:

Um, but you know, like even within that, outside of

Donwill:

that, I would say right now I'm more, I'm just producing a lot.

Donwill:

I'm making beats.

Donwill:

I just enjoy the quiet and the, the, the focus of, of like the knobs and make and,

Donwill:

and the sampling and shit like writing.

Donwill:

When I write, writing for me is.

Donwill:

I have to be in the space to write.

Donwill:

I don't have, I don't have much to say.

Donwill:

I just, I just finished the album.

Donwill:

I don't have much to say that's new or unique.

Donwill:

I'm, I'm still in the middle of gathering the information.

Donwill:

DJing is always gonna be around like the, the three things.

Donwill:

So rapping, producing and DJing are just constants in my life and they never stop.

Donwill:

DJing is the one thing that I do the most.

Donwill:

and it's the thing that I genuinely am, I'm gonna be completely honest.

Donwill:

It's the thing I feel the luckiest to get to do

Sir Daniel:

I,

Donwill:

because.

Sir Daniel:

I, I totally get that.

Donwill:

It's one.

Donwill:

I came at one, I came about it late.

Donwill:

like it was the, it was the thing I put in my arsenal after everything else.

Donwill:

when I tell you, I understand why people are just like starting to DJ or pick

Donwill:

buying controllers or like whatever.

Donwill:

'cause there is literally nothing like a night where you had a, a, a

Donwill:

day that has whooped your ass and you, you turn on that fucking mixer,

Donwill:

them turntables, and you play the song that you've been dying to hear loud.

Donwill:

And the room wants to hear it too.

Donwill:

Like it is.

Donwill:

Man.

Donwill:

Like it's, it's the one thing that I truly, even when I'm like, I don't want

Donwill:

to, even when I have those moments where I'm like, I don't feel like doing this.

Donwill:

You're not like, it's like going to the gym.

Jay Ray:

Yeah.

Donwill:

there are sometimes, every gig is your favorite gig.

Donwill:

I'll just say that and I'm gonna leave it.

Jay Ray:

Yeah.

Donwill:

already know.

Donwill:

You already there you some gigs where you show up and like, your pay is a fuck, two

Sir Daniel:

Yeah.

Donwill:

and a plate or whatever the fuck they wanna do for you that night.

Sir Daniel:

that,

Donwill:

you,

Sir Daniel:

if that.

Donwill:

sit, you sit your controller at the end of the bar or whatever.

Donwill:

You, you just doing your thing.

Donwill:

But it's, it's, it's such a, a beautiful, you know, it's such a beautiful task to

Donwill:

be able to just play music for people.

Sir Daniel:

Yeah.

Donwill:

that's the whole thing.

Donwill:

That's the trade.

Donwill:

The trade is that even when it's like.

Donwill:

Those horror stories about requests and people like

Donwill:

coming up and asking for music.

Donwill:

They're real, but also on the environment, an opportunity to,

Donwill:

it's, it's, it's further research.

Donwill:

Like

Jay Ray:

Mm.

Sir Daniel:

Yeah.

Donwill:

club and somebody comes up like, yo, me and my homies, we want

Donwill:

to hear X, y, z, whoopty, whoop.

Donwill:

And you, if you're actually watching the room and doing your

Donwill:

homework, then that might be the, the term that the night needs.

Donwill:

You know what I'm saying?

Donwill:

Or it might be a person that just.

Donwill:

You know, they just want to connect with somebody.

Sir Daniel:

Yeah.

Donwill:

just literally, not everybody is, has nefarious, you know,

Donwill:

intentions when they approach a dj.

Donwill:

I won't, I won't, won't say everybody is like that, but for the most

Donwill:

part, I've softened up on requests.

Donwill:

There was a time where I was very, I, I, I remember stopping

Donwill:

the music and telling people like

Sir Daniel:

Me alone.

Donwill:

that a woman walked up and request and I was just like, tell

Donwill:

the room what you wanted to hear.

Donwill:

That type of shit.

Donwill:

Do we wanna hear this?

Donwill:

You guys

Sir Daniel:

Whoa.

Donwill:

sort of shit.

Donwill:

Yeah.

Donwill:

I would say I, I feel, I feel, I feel lucky and I feel blessed to be able to do

Donwill:

any of the things that I do for a living.

Donwill:

But DJing is just that one thing that man, like, it feels like you

Donwill:

can control the tone of a room, control the, the time, like you're

Donwill:

helping people have a better night.

Donwill:

Have a good night.

Jay Ray:

you are like, I tell, uh, sir, sir Daniel knows this.

Jay Ray:

So I'm a dancer.

Jay Ray:

Uh, uh, Donwill

Sir Daniel:

Are done.

Jay Ray:

listen.

Jay Ray:

Um, and there was a period of time when I thought I wanted to be a dj and

Jay Ray:

because I love I, that, that, that the experience that I have as a dancer.

Jay Ray:

But what I realized is like, no, no, no.

Jay Ray:

I don't.

Jay Ray:

I just want to experience it.

Jay Ray:

And so I am a, a, a lover DJs and the experiences that y'all create

Jay Ray:

for us, and I sit in that experience.

Jay Ray:

I just want to go, sir Daniel knows I'm gonna hit the dance floor if

Jay Ray:

you get me hitting the dance floor.

Jay Ray:

You doing good?

Donwill:

And I was gonna say, and I'm sure Sir Daniel could attest that the

Donwill:

dancers are as as important as the dj.

Sir Daniel:

Absolutely.

Donwill:

And.

Sir Daniel:

and the fact that we don't see more people.

Sir Daniel:

So if I see somebody break out, you know, there might be that one person

Sir Daniel:

that breaks out, it's like, oh, whatever it it takes to keep that

Sir Daniel:

person doing that, I'm going to do that.

Sir Daniel:

I'm gonna continue playing because that person right there is who I'm playing for.

Sir Daniel:

Because they, the outward display of joy is like, those are the, that's

Sir Daniel:

what we, that's what DJs live for.

Sir Daniel:

That's currency to us big time.

Donwill:

and I think the, I think a, a quiet part that doesn't really get

Donwill:

spoken about enough is that there are so many different types of DJs.

Sir Daniel:

Yes.

Donwill:

like Jazzy Jeff.

Donwill:

If he comes to DJ or party, you're going to see Jazzy Jeff, period.

Jay Ray:

Absolutely.

Jay Ray:

I wanna watch him.

Jay Ray:

He's gonna do that CR do all of that work.

Jay Ray:

I wanna see it.

Donwill:

Whatever he gives you is what you're going to get

Donwill:

and you're gonna like it God.

Donwill:

And like there are other people like him.

Donwill:

Like he's, he's, he's, he's who he is.

Donwill:

He's of the cloth.

Donwill:

He's a like a icon.

Donwill:

But there are other icons, like who you go, you get what

Donwill:

they give and you enjoy it.

Donwill:

And then there are DJs who are working DJs who show up, read a room, play

Donwill:

to the audience and make sure that everybody's having a good time.

Donwill:

And you know what I'm saying?

Donwill:

Like, I'm not saying that that's all there is, but know, the gray area

Donwill:

between that like I. Really do enjoy reading rooms, making people move,

Donwill:

looking at pockets of people like, all right, so they're not dancing.

Donwill:

Let me see, you do a little, you do a little bit of like, like profile.

Donwill:

They like, okay, I'm gonna, I'm gonna throw 'em some spice

Donwill:

girls and see what happens.

Jay Ray:

Yes.

Donwill:

like, I got 'em, I got 'em all right now, now how do I get these

Donwill:

niggas to party with these people?

Donwill:

And it's just like, it's this subtle dance of like, it's um, it's like anthropology.

Donwill:

I don't know if that's the right word for it, but you know what I'm saying.

Donwill:

You're, you're, you're doing this kind of like.

Sir Daniel:

That's valid.

Donwill:

Yeah,

Sir Daniel:

Just studying people.

Sir Daniel:

Yes.

Donwill:

I, and as a people watcher who it's, it's my joy to like,

Donwill:

not only watch them, but them a little bit and make them dance.

Jay Ray:

Yes.

Sir Daniel:

You know, Donwill, well, the, the, clearly, as a dj you speak

Sir Daniel:

the language of music, but what also what DJs have to do is we always

Sir Daniel:

also have to keep our ears fresh.

Sir Daniel:

And, you know, people are always asking us to listen to new music and to check

Sir Daniel:

this out, to have you heard this?

Sir Daniel:

Um, but you have a substack called New Music Tuesday, and which I love

Sir Daniel:

because as a former record store employee, Tuesdays was, Tuesdays were

Jay Ray:

the day.

Sir Daniel:

super, Tuesday

Donwill:

that.

Sir Daniel:

was the day that we all looked forward to because that's

Sir Daniel:

when the new releases would come out.

Sir Daniel:

And we'd have them, we'd have dates on our chalk, our dry erase board,

Sir Daniel:

and people would come in asking

Donwill:

erase.

Sir Daniel:

and, you know, asking, has it come out yet?

Sir Daniel:

Nope.

Sir Daniel:

Next week.

Jay Ray:

back, you

Sir Daniel:

If this gets pushed back, then, boy, let me tell you something.

Sir Daniel:

Uh, if it gets pushed back, forget about, I'll never forget when

Sir Daniel:

that Wonderland K's Wonderland.

Sir Daniel:

The date kept getting pushed back and pushed back and pushed back.

Sir Daniel:

Then finally it was just, it's not coming out.

Sir Daniel:

Well, not,

Donwill:

Yeah.

Sir Daniel:

the US version.

Sir Daniel:

So it's just not coming out.

Sir Daniel:

So I said all that to say, um, you have the Substack new music Tuesday.

Sir Daniel:

Um, you're listening to new things Constant.

Sir Daniel:

Well, that's a question.

Sir Daniel:

Are you, because you're so heavily in it, do you, do you just some,

Sir Daniel:

sometimes I just, like, I don't want to hear anything else.

Sir Daniel:

I'm in album mode right now.

Sir Daniel:

Or are you constantly listening to new stuff and if so, what are you enjoying

Sir Daniel:

right now and what should we look out for?

Donwill:

That's a, that's a really good question.

Donwill:

Like the, the, the posing it as, do I listen to the stuff that I write

Donwill:

about or am I just No, seriously,

Sir Daniel:

Yeah.

Donwill:

a valid question because there are times when I don't, there are times,

Donwill:

like, I wanna say for the past month and a half, two months, I haven't heard anything

Donwill:

I posted about, I've just been using it, using the space as a way to earmark

Donwill:

things for me to go back and check out.

Donwill:

Um, like, so basically the, the, the theory, not theory, the philosophy of

Donwill:

the new Music Tuesday newsletter is, um, I'm not gonna write about something

Donwill:

that I don't personally want to hear.

Donwill:

I'm, I'm

Jay Ray:

Love that.

Donwill:

light or give light to anything for the sake of like, trashing it or,

Donwill:

or saying like, oh, look at this one.

Donwill:

Like, oh, I

Sir Daniel:

Yeah.

Donwill:

Look at this video.

Donwill:

His video sucks.

Donwill:

I, there's enough of that.

Donwill:

This is a, a space where I'm writing about things that I either

Donwill:

enjoy or think I will enjoy.

Donwill:

And if you happen to enjoy them, that's great too.

Donwill:

I'm also writing about.

Donwill:

Other musicians are artists who I know that I know who are working class

Donwill:

musicians and might not be able to get the same level of that they used to.

Donwill:

So it's just, it's just a way for me to like spread them.

Donwill:

Like, you know, I got so many homies that the blogs went away,

Donwill:

like we are like, well what do we

Jay Ray:

Yeah.

Donwill:

I guess we just run the Instagram and it goes back to

Donwill:

that same question you asked me.

Donwill:

Um, that's a long way to answer.

Donwill:

I'm sorry.

Donwill:

But, so what I'm, the last album that I remember running back three or four times

Donwill:

uh, this cat, like from his, he was in a group called Pacific Division Pac Div.

Jay Ray:

Oh, okay.

Jay Ray:

Yeah, yeah.

Jay Ray:

Yeah.

Donwill:

put out a album called, um.

Donwill:

I, I forget what it's called.

Donwill:

It's called like songs.

Donwill:

Songs made, I don't know what the album's called.

Donwill:

It's got a green cover and like, a little like hand drawn figure.

Donwill:

like produ.

Donwill:

He also like, also produced the song, um, sing about me for Kendrick Lamar.

Jay Ray:

Mm-hmm.

Donwill:

know, he's got like a, he's, he's got like a heavy resume

Donwill:

and he raps really fucking well.

Donwill:

So the album is dope.

Donwill:

It's got two cuts of FTE on it, blues on there.

Donwill:

Michael Rocks from, what's his group's name?

Donwill:

The Cool Kids is on there.

Donwill:

It's a really dope album, but it's, it's, it's classic boom bap.

Donwill:

It's just, it's hip hop, you know what I'm saying?

Sir Daniel:

Nice.

Donwill:

another album that I listened to and I enjoy but I haven't

Donwill:

returned to is Kalani's album.

Jay Ray:

Oh, I have to check that.

Jay Ray:

I have to check it out.

Jay Ray:

I haven't listened yet.

Jay Ray:

I heard it's good.

Donwill:

yeah, the, the prop, if I'm gonna say there's a problem

Donwill:

with it, it's not a problem.

Donwill:

But for me personally, I enjoy shorter albums, uh, with a

Sir Daniel:

Okay.

Donwill:

concentration of songs.

Sir Daniel:

hold on, Don.

Sir Daniel:

Will, are you telling me that you don't like albums that

Sir Daniel:

have like 39 cuts on them?

Sir Daniel:

Is that what you're saying?

Donwill:

Oh,

Sir Daniel:

don't like, you,

Donwill:

You know, if,

Sir Daniel:

you don't like.

Donwill:

have, if you dropping, if you drop a three disc

Jay Ray:

Yes.

Donwill:

not listen to it.

Jay Ray:

I'm gonna ask you a question just you have, uh, in your spirit.

Jay Ray:

If y'all were DJing a party tonight

Sir Daniel:

Hmm.

Jay Ray:

and you had to drop a song that's in your spirit, you like, I

Jay Ray:

just want people to shake they ass to this, what's that song for you tonight?

Jay Ray:

Don?

Jay Ray:

Will, what's the song that you was just like, this one's going in?

Jay Ray:

'cause I want people to dance to it.

Donwill:

At the party I'm gonna be at tonight, I think the one that

Donwill:

I would drop Act Up City Girls.

Donwill:

Act Up

Jay Ray:

Okay.

Jay Ray:

Okay.

Jay Ray:

Okay.

Donwill:

a classic give up about an like, I love, I love that song.

Donwill:

love that song so much.

Sir Daniel:

Shout out to Lil.

Donwill:

yeah, it, it always gets the response that I wanted to get.

Jay Ray:

Here we go.

Donwill:

those like, you know, standards and then, you know, this fun stuff

Donwill:

you could do to mix out of it, but.

Jay Ray:

I love that.

Jay Ray:

Sir Daniel?

Sir Daniel:

So I was, I was trying to, you know, be, you know, real grand about this.

Sir Daniel:

But then I said, you know what I, the song that I'm going to drop, if I were

Sir Daniel:

to be spinning tonight, I would drop "It Takes Two" by Rob Base and DJ EZ Rock.

Sir Daniel:

Just, I, I just gotta do it.

Sir Daniel:

I have to do it.

Sir Daniel:

I have to do it.

Sir Daniel:

at the time of this recording, you know, we just, we just got the news that

Sir Daniel:

Rob Base passed away at the age of 59.

Sir Daniel:

Which is, wow.

Sir Daniel:

It is so crazy that he passed away so young, such a young age.

Sir Daniel:

And dj and his dj, DJ EZ Rock, passed away back in 2014, and

Sir Daniel:

he was super young as well.

Sir Daniel:

So that, for me, that's what I would do.

Sir Daniel:

I would definitely pay Amish to him because he is such an important part

Jay Ray:

Yes.

Sir Daniel:

our lives

Jay Ray:

Yep.

Sir Daniel:

and we actually, we've taken it for granted.

Sir Daniel:

We have taken that, we've taken his music for granted because it's just

Sir Daniel:

because it's always been there.

Sir Daniel:

And I think we do that a lot to our, um, to our heritage artists.

Sir Daniel:

Especially when we're talking about hip hop.

Sir Daniel:

We were talking earlier about us about aging in hip hop.

Sir Daniel:

And being respectful of that.

Sir Daniel:

And I think we do take a, we take a, um, take for granted people who are

Sir Daniel:

over a certain age and who maybe have not dropped a record for 30 years, but

Sir Daniel:

it does not negate the importance that they have to the culture because what

Sir Daniel:

they've done has actually carved a lane for everybody that's popping right now.

Sir Daniel:

And for everybody to continue to be eating off of hip hop.

Sir Daniel:

You know, I don't know if it's still a full course meal or a carcass

Sir Daniel:

right now, but people are still eating off of rap music today.

Sir Daniel:

And I guess the question I wanna pose to you all then is,

Sir Daniel:

well, it's not even a question.

Sir Daniel:

It, thinking about Rob Base makes me rethink the term, one hit wonder.

Jay Ray:

Hmm.

Sir Daniel:

I think that we do a disservice when we call people one hit

Sir Daniel:

wonders simply because that one hit.

Sir Daniel:

Literally can become part of the fabric of your life.

Jay Ray:

Yeah.

Sir Daniel:

And again, it spins off.

Sir Daniel:

That's the thing about this, this culture, it, it creates a vibration and

Sir Daniel:

a ripple effect throughout the culture that you don't even realize is happening.

Sir Daniel:

But do you know how many like clubs and dance recitals we've been to

Sir Daniel:

that people, people have jammed out to, to, to, it takes two.

Sir Daniel:

How many DJs have done routines off of it takes two.

Sir Daniel:

So I think we, again, I'm rethinking the term one hit wonder and using it,

Sir Daniel:

possibly removing it from, from my vernacular when it comes to talking

Sir Daniel:

about artists, especially when it comes to talking about our artists, because

Sir Daniel:

I don't wanna, uh, I don't want to, to demean them anymore in that way.

Donwill:

I don't it.

Donwill:

I I've, it's funny you say that.

Donwill:

I haven't, I don't use that and I'm, I'm just realizing in this moment that

Donwill:

I don't use it like, it's as like a artist when, you know, when you're

Donwill:

trying to make, you know what I'm saying?

Donwill:

Like music that has man appeal or make music that people would enjoy.

Donwill:

it just, it's, it's only a negative connotation.

Donwill:

There's nothing positive about it.

Donwill:

You know what I'm saying?

Donwill:

And like the other thing is that to get a hit, get a hit, whatever

Donwill:

the, whatever your definition of a hit is, is it's hard for one.

Donwill:

You know what I'm saying?

Donwill:

So you got one round of applause.

Donwill:

If you make more than one, then lightning, just lightning is

Donwill:

striking inside the bottle.

Donwill:

But you know what I'm saying?

Donwill:

the, the other thing is that there's.

Donwill:

There's this thing about work I'm thinking and how, you know, to say one hit wonder

Donwill:

means that that artist worked in service of an industry and not a community.

Jay Ray:

Hmm.

Donwill:

to say he had one hit, he's a one hit wonder.

Donwill:

Yeah.

Donwill:

one-hit wonder for the label that that is making money off of him

Donwill:

for, for an industry that needs him to, to, to pay assistance and,

Jay Ray:

Right.

Donwill:

fuel other ventures.

Donwill:

But in terms of like his impact, it's, it's endless.

Donwill:

It's boundless.

Donwill:

You know what I'm saying?

Jay Ray:

Yeah.

Donwill:

also it, it has to be said that he said, fuck the Big Mac.

Donwill:

You know what I'm saying?

Donwill:

He loved Whoppers.

Sir Daniel:

You know how impactful that is because McDonald's is king.

Sir Daniel:

Mc, especially McDonald's was putting a lot of money in hip hop and for

Sir Daniel:

him to say that directly for the competition, that took a lot of balls,

Donwill:

Fuck the big,

Sir Daniel:

big Mac.

Donwill:

what, I feel like, I feel like I'm half joking,

Jay Ray:

i'm so with the both of you.

Jay Ray:

Like there is not a black gathering the world that it takes two or

Jay Ray:

joy and pain is not playing at,

Donwill:

Joy and

Jay Ray:

a ga, there isn't a gathering where these songs

Jay Ray:

aren't showing up in the DJ set.

Jay Ray:

And I'm gonna tell you, Those songs were bridge songs.

Jay Ray:

They

Sir Daniel:

Yes.

Jay Ray:

that our parents loved, added some rap to them, and we loved it.

Jay Ray:

So my parents were dancing to those songs and they didn't

Jay Ray:

like rap, but they liked that.

Donwill:

Yeah.

Jay Ray:

And we don't get a lot of that these days where there are these

Jay Ray:

songs that directly call back to the previous generation and bring it forward.

Jay Ray:

So that legacy, we, yo we staying 10 toes down on that.

Jay Ray:

Those that, that, Rob Base and DJ EZ Rock made magic

Sir Daniel:

Absolutely.

Donwill:

even if you go back and look at like, that video,

Jay Ray:

Yep.

Donwill:

the video for, um,

Sir Daniel:

It takes two

Donwill:

it

Sir Daniel:

or

Donwill:

Yeah.

Donwill:

That video is,

Sir Daniel:

Bi.

Donwill:

was such like a, it is a time capsule.

Jay Ray:

Yeah.

Donwill:

that is like, he's as important to the culture as Rakim.

Jay Ray:

Yo.

Jay Ray:

Classic, classic.

Jay Ray:

And this has been a an amazingly rich classic conversation.

Jay Ray:

Don, will, we appreciate you, brother.

Jay Ray:

Thank you so much for taking the time to come and hang out with us, man.

Donwill:

Yo, thank and thank you for having me.

Donwill:

Like, I gotta say, I love conversations like this, conversations that

Donwill:

like go from place to place, well structured and also are just full

Donwill:

of like curiosity and whimsy.

Donwill:

That's my, that's my shit.

Jay Ray:

Man.

Donwill:

to y'all, man.

Sir Daniel:

Thank

Jay Ray:

you.

Jay Ray:

We

Sir Daniel:

you.

Sir Daniel:

We love to hear that.

Sir Daniel:

Please, before we go, please tell everyone where they can find Almanac

Sir Daniel:

of Rap and how they can follow you.

Sir Daniel:

All of the things, all of the socials.

Sir Daniel:

Please let our audience know.

Donwill:

Almanac Rap is on Instagram under AORShow.

Donwill:

Um, I'm on Instagram under Donwill just all one word, no spaces.

Donwill:

And if you wanna hit me up, I have a one 800 number.

Donwill:

8 7 7 Donwill, that's 8 7 7 D-O-N-W-I-L-L.

Donwill:

Drop me a message, man.

Donwill:

I might pick up, I might say, what's up?

Donwill:

You never know.

Donwill:

I'm trying to, I'm just, I'm just doing

Jay Ray:

That's amazing.

Donwill:

I'm

Donwill:

getting weird.

Sir Daniel:

Please, you should, you know what you should do?

Sir Daniel:

You should do one of those.

Sir Daniel:

Remember those commercials?

Sir Daniel:

I don't know how old you are, Donwill, but Jay Ray, do you remember when, like

Sir Daniel:

JJ Fad or um, 2 Live Crew, they would drop commercials and they, Dr. Dre them, they

Sir Daniel:

would have their 800 number and you can call them, but it is gotta be eighties.

Jay Ray:

Love that man.

Jay Ray:

Please, y'all make sure that you connect with Donwill.

Jay Ray:

Thank y'all so much for joining us here on Queue Points.

Jay Ray:

If you can see our faces and hear our voices, make sure that you subscribe.

Jay Ray:

Tell your friends, family, colleagues about the show.

Jay Ray:

Make sure that you subscribe to Donwill's platforms.

Jay Ray:

Go and subscribe to The Almanac of Rap right now.

Jay Ray:

Wherever you enjoy your podcast, make sure you follow him on social media as well.

Jay Ray:

Check out Queue Points at Queue Points dot com.

Jay Ray:

You can become a member.

Jay Ray:

It keeps the lights on and Queue Points land.

Jay Ray:

And you can listen to all of the archive episodes of Queue Points.

Jay Ray:

In addition to a bunch of other stuff on substack and you can shop

Jay Ray:

our store, do all of the things.

Jay Ray:

We appreciate y'all.

Jay Ray:

We love y'all.

Sir Daniel:

We absolutely doing this.

Sir Daniel:

Like I say, in every episode in this life, you have a choice.

Sir Daniel:

You can either pick up the needle or you could let the record play.

Sir Daniel:

I am DJ Sir Daniel.

Jay Ray:

My name is Jay Ray and that's our brother Donwill.

Sir Daniel:

And this is Queue Points podcast, dropping the

Sir Daniel:

needle on black music history.

Sir Daniel:

We will see you on the next go round.

Sir Daniel:

Peace y'all.

Jay Ray:

Peace y'all.

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About the Podcast

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Queue Points

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About your hosts

Profile picture for DJ Sir Daniel

DJ Sir Daniel

DJ Sir Daniel is a DJ/Selector and part of Atlanta's, all-vinyl crew, Wax Fundamentals. Co-host of the Queue Points podcast, he is an advocate for DJ culture and is passionate about creating atmospheres of inclusivity and jubilation from a Black perspective.

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Jay Ray

Johnnie Ray Kornegay III (Jay Ray) is a podcast consultant and co-host and producer of Queue Points, the Ambie Award-nominated podcast that drops the needle on Black music history. In addition to his duties at Queue Points, he is the Deputy Director of Strategy and Impact for CNP (Counter Narrative Project). A photographer, creative consultant and social commentator, Jay Ray's work is centered around a commitment to telling full and honest stories about communities often ignored.