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Episode 207

The Category Is: Your Favorite Rapper Is A Butch Queen

“The Category Is: Your Favorite Rapper Is A Butch Queen” is a grounded, funny, and thoughtful sit-down between Jay Ray and DJ Sir Daniel about energy, performance, and how Black men show up in hip-hop; not about who anybody is sleeping with. Drawing from Black queer culture and ballroom, they unpack why so many of rap’s most beloved figures move with butch queen energy, and why that matters for how we understand masculinity, vulnerability, attraction, and flair.​

In this episode, they get into:

  1. What “butch queen” actually means in Black queer culture, and why they intentionally separate it here from assumptions about sexuality.​
  2. How artists like Tyler, The Creator, LL Cool J, Slick Rick, Kendrick Lamar, Tupac, Diddy, and 50 Cent embody a blend of masculine and feminine energies in their style, showmanship, and emotional range.​
  3. The role of theater, fashion, and performance in hip-hop history, and why showmanship, costume, and “doing the most” have always been part of the culture.​
  4. How labeling Black men’s expression as “sassy” or suspect can fuel repression, harm mental health, and sometimes feed into violence, and why giving Black men room to be their full selves is so important.​
  5. An invitation to brothers (and everyone who loves them) to think about therapy, balance, and using that butch queen power for something other than ego and chaos.​

If you care about hip-hop, Black queer language, and the many ways Black men hold duality on and off the mic, this conversation offers a clear, nuanced lens to sit with.

Chapter Markers

00:00 Intro Theme

00:16 Introduction and Hosts' Greetings

01:45 Defining 'Butch Queen'

03:43 Cultural Context and Ballroom Influence

06:31 Historical and Contemporary Butch Queens in Hip Hop

08:51 Spotlight on Tyler, the Creator

11:05 LL Cool J: Hip Hop's Original Pretty Boy

15:58 Slick Rick: The Ostentatious Storyteller

19:35 Kendrick Lamar: The Balanced Butch Queen

22:06 Big Butch Queen Energy

22:32 Kendrick Lamar's Slow Jam Dominance

23:33 Sean Diddy Combs: The Ultimate Butch Queen

29:50 Tupac: The Butch Queen Architect

36:32 50 Cent: The Messy Butch Queen

39:09 Embracing Full Self Expression

43:22 Closing Thoughts and Farewell

Support Queue Points By Becoming An Insider: https://link.queuepoints.com/membership

Transcript
Sir Daniel:

Greetings and welcome to another episode of Queue Points podcast.

Sir Daniel:

I'm DJ Sir Daniel.

Jay Ray:

and my name is Jay Ray, sometimes known by my governments

Jay Ray:

as Johnnie Ray Kornegay III.

Jay Ray:

And Sir Daniel, the category is.

Sir Daniel:

Well, Jay Ray, ladies and gentlemen, them they hims and hers.

Sir Daniel:

We have been here at Queue Points.

Sir Daniel:

We've been trying to figure out, we've been trying to figure out a way to tell

Sir Daniel:

you this, how to let you know this.

Sir Daniel:

Um, there's only one way that we can say it.

Sir Daniel:

Is that your favorite rapper.

Sir Daniel:

Mc is a butch queen.

Sir Daniel:

That's right.

Sir Daniel:

Your favorite rapper.

Sir Daniel:

Your favorite mc is a butch queen.

Sir Daniel:

And before we delve into this conversation, we wanna make it absolutely

Sir Daniel:

clear that the people that we are.

Jay Ray:

Abundantly clear.

Sir Daniel:

the people that we are mentioning and that we are paying

Sir Daniel:

homage to, quite frankly, um, this is no indictment on anybody's sexuality

Sir Daniel:

because when, when we begin talking and delving deeper, you'll realize that

Sir Daniel:

the title butch, queen, um, has nothing really to do with a person's sexuality,

Sir Daniel:

but it is a, a persona that a lot of.

Sir Daniel:

People, especially a lot of black men, dawn on themselves, um, to show up in

Sir Daniel:

this world in particular situations.

Sir Daniel:

So I think that Jay Ray, we need to start off with a definition of a butch queen,

Jay Ray:

Yes.

Jay Ray:

So here, so Butch Queen as a term is, uh.

Jay Ray:

Historically and synonymous, synonymous with black queer culture, right?

Jay Ray:

And it is a way to identify a person, uh, and how they show up in the world.

Jay Ray:

Jay Ray is identified as a butch queen, so I would be, I would fit

Jay Ray:

into the butch queen category.

Jay Ray:

So if you've ever met me, you actually have met a butch queen.

Jay Ray:

Okay?

Jay Ray:

But the formal definition is the following, right?

Jay Ray:

The definition of Butch Queen, and this is according to, uh, Wiki Missionary.

Jay Ray:

I don't wiki missionary wary.

Jay Ray:

Um,

Sir Daniel:

school, but go.

Jay Ray:

did?

Jay Ray:

Okay, cool.

Jay Ray:

Um, is one.

Jay Ray:

Uh, a gay male who is neither overtly masculine nor overtly feminine, but

Jay Ray:

displays the mannerisms of both genders.

Jay Ray:

Now, what's really important about that for this conversation is that's just

Jay Ray:

the definition, but that extract out.

Jay Ray:

The gay male part and just focus on the male part.

Jay Ray:

Right?

Jay Ray:

Because what we are talking about for this conversation has nothing

Jay Ray:

to do with sexual orientation.

Jay Ray:

It's literally a, a energy.

Jay Ray:

It's the way people show up in the world, and, and I would argue Sir Daniel, that

Jay Ray:

butch queen is the thing that folks are attracted to that they can't explain.

Sir Daniel:

Mm. They can't put their finger on it, but if they

Sir Daniel:

did, I'm just, I'm just playing.

Sir Daniel:

I'm not gonna, I'm not gonna tell that joke.

Sir Daniel:

But, uh, can I add one caveat to this Jay Ray?

Sir Daniel:

All right.

Sir Daniel:

So the term butch queen also is used heavily in ballroom culture.

Sir Daniel:

And I know in 2026 and over the past few years, people outside of the

Sir Daniel:

black community have been co-opting a lot of terms, terminology and

Sir Daniel:

just the whole ballroom culture.

Sir Daniel:

So I want to say this and make it clear,

Sir Daniel:

white men cannot be butch queens.

Sir Daniel:

I'm sorry.

Sir Daniel:

White, this is not for you.

Sir Daniel:

The same way that the lesbian delegation has decided that studs cannot be

Sir Daniel:

white, butch queens cannot be white.

Sir Daniel:

I'm sorry.

Sir Daniel:

Just sit this one out.

Sir Daniel:

This is not about you.

Sir Daniel:

I know that some, the way the, all the co-opting and all of

Sir Daniel:

that, that that's been happening.

Sir Daniel:

Um, yeah.

Sir Daniel:

It's, it's gonna stop.

Sir Daniel:

Here we are, we are put drawing a line in the sand.

Sir Daniel:

That this term is not for you.

Sir Daniel:

This term is not for you.

Sir Daniel:

And I also, and I also bring up, um, the ballroom culture because the butch queen

Sir Daniel:

persona, as Jay Ray said, it's not about sexuality, it's also about survival.

Sir Daniel:

If we're going to

Jay Ray:

Yeah.

Jay Ray:

Ooh, you better talk about that.

Jay Ray:

Mm-hmm.

Sir Daniel:

about duality.

Sir Daniel:

The term came from the, uh, survival for young.

Sir Daniel:

Black gay men living in the inner cities, having to code switch,

Sir Daniel:

if you will, at times and, and, and survive in the urban jungle.

Sir Daniel:

And so you could put on.

Sir Daniel:

This persona of a tough a B-Boy, someone who's, you know, and a lot of

Sir Daniel:

them that aren't, aren't putting on, they really are that gutter with it.

Sir Daniel:

They really are.

Sir Daniel:

They grew up in the projects they grew up on, um, hanging out on

Sir Daniel:

the stoops with their friends, cracking jokes on each other.

Sir Daniel:

And, um, some of them sell drugs.

Sir Daniel:

Uh.

Sir Daniel:

You know, get into other, um, illegal, uh, ways of making money to survive.

Sir Daniel:

Again, I think the root of all of these, these terms, these personas,

Sir Daniel:

is survival and protection.

Sir Daniel:

So I think that needs to be set as well.

Sir Daniel:

And I think this is the perfect time, Jay Ray, to talk about this because the scene

Sir Daniel:

has been set over the past couple years.

Sir Daniel:

Like recently we had the whole, the whole dandy, um.

Sir Daniel:

The, uh, at the Met Gala, the whole dandy, um, gala and the, the theme of Dandyism

Sir Daniel:

and exploring dress and the way black men present and, and show up in the world.

Sir Daniel:

And, uh, we also have, here in Atlanta, we have scad has the, um, Andre Leon

Sir Daniel:

Talley exhibit right now showing all his journey through fashion, through his

Sir Daniel:

clothing and the armor that he put on.

Sir Daniel:

And so I think this is the perfect time to discuss.

Sir Daniel:

Why your favorite mc, your favorite rapper?

Sir Daniel:

Your favorite tough guy?

Sir Daniel:

On the mic right now is the Butch Queen, and we're gonna, we're gonna

Sir Daniel:

have some historical figures as well.

Sir Daniel:

Jay Ray, right?

Sir Daniel:

We're gonna

Jay Ray:

absolutely.

Jay Ray:

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Jay Ray:

So we, uh, in fact, one, two.

Sir Daniel:

I know.

Jay Ray:

well, two of the people on my list are, are historical and then

Jay Ray:

like we have one, and then like there's the final boss, which we will talk

Jay Ray:

about in a, in a, a little bit later.

Sir Daniel:

Boss.

Jay Ray:

the final boss of, of, of, of rapper butch queens.

Jay Ray:

Um, I do, I do wanna say, I wanna say one thing.

Jay Ray:

Um, I, I feel like.

Jay Ray:

With all of these folks that we're going to talk about, and I don't

Jay Ray:

know who's on Sir Daniel's list.

Jay Ray:

So we're gonna talk about when we have like overlaps, I think what

Jay Ray:

makes them special and you'll be able to see it like when we say the

Jay Ray:

names going back to that definition.

Jay Ray:

And when we say the names, you'll be like, oh yeah, I could see that.

Jay Ray:

And I wanna be really clear that that.

Jay Ray:

Is what I think is those, these, these men's superpower in terms of

Jay Ray:

how they walk through the world.

Jay Ray:

It's not something that has to be stated.

Jay Ray:

Um, it is not about sexual orientation, but this balance that

Jay Ray:

these men show up in the world having is attractive to everyone.

Jay Ray:

And I feel like that's just really important to say because

Jay Ray:

all of the folks that we're gonna talk about are like stars.

Jay Ray:

Like these are like.

Jay Ray:

Famous people, you know what I'm saying?

Jay Ray:

Um, but yeah, I feel like it's a good time to just kind of,

Jay Ray:

uh, rattle off some names.

Jay Ray:

And I want, for people that are listening, I want the pictures of

Jay Ray:

those folks to pop into your head.

Jay Ray:

And I want to know immediately what you have to say.

Sir Daniel:

Yeah.

Sir Daniel:

He, yeah.

Jay Ray:

Mm.

Sir Daniel:

right.

Sir Daniel:

So you want me to go

Jay Ray:

You go first.

Sir Daniel:

Okay.

Sir Daniel:

I think, I think everyone will agree with my first pick.

Sir Daniel:

I think he is the, I think he's the reigning.

Sir Daniel:

hip hop, butch queen, he's the reigning, um, boss.

Sir Daniel:

Not boss, but he's the reigning hip hop butch queen, and I cannot even call it

Sir Daniel:

hip hop anymore, but that's a whole other

Jay Ray:

That's a whole other conversation.

Sir Daniel:

So my number three pick is Tyler, the creator.

Jay Ray:

Good choice.

Jay Ray:

He's not on my list.

Jay Ray:

Okay.

Sir Daniel:

Tyler, the creator, is just that I think what.

Sir Daniel:

What we tap into is that creative spirit.

Sir Daniel:

There is a duality of spirit that comes along with creatives.

Sir Daniel:

It just is.

Sir Daniel:

Those are people that are able to see the world, um, through both lenses,

Sir Daniel:

um, through both energies and, and can emit through both energies.

Sir Daniel:

And lately, Tyler has been playing with it.

Sir Daniel:

Even more in his, in the way he shows up, in the way he dresses,

Sir Daniel:

in the, um, some of the situations that he's been pulled into online.

Sir Daniel:

Um, uh, the thing, the lyrics, the raps that, you know, I, you know, I,

Sir Daniel:

I don't give a about your pronouns.

Sir Daniel:

I'm that, and that, you know, those things.

Sir Daniel:

He said it.

Sir Daniel:

And I think, and there's also, um, I think as he gets older,

Sir Daniel:

he's becoming comfortable and secure in who he is and, um.

Sir Daniel:

Whatever way he shows up sexually, because I think he's made it clear

Sir Daniel:

that, um, and maybe that is, that is another superpower, Jay Ray, is the

Jay Ray:

he's very ambiguous.

Jay Ray:

He's very ambiguous.

Jay Ray:

We put him,

Sir Daniel:

of it all.

Jay Ray:

yeah.

Jay Ray:

The queer community, I think has put Tyler in like the queer umbrella, but I'm like.

Jay Ray:

He is very ambiguous with that.

Jay Ray:

I don't, I, and I think he has allowed that to be a superpower.

Sir Daniel:

Right.

Sir Daniel:

I'm not get, we're not giving him any, he's not getting any kind of,

Sir Daniel:

um, keys to the city as it were.

Sir Daniel:

Nobody's

Jay Ray:

no.

Jay Ray:

Queer Icon awards for Tyler.

Sir Daniel:

not going, he's not performing a pride or anything like

Sir Daniel:

that anytime soon, I don't think, but.

Sir Daniel:

For me, Tali the creator and the way that he shows up and, and in

Sir Daniel:

the powerful way that he shows up, um, puts him at number three on my

Sir Daniel:

list of butch queens that are MCs.

Jay Ray:

Yeah.

Jay Ray:

Yeah.

Jay Ray:

Um, love that pick.

Jay Ray:

Um, my pick is going to be controversial, um, but I think the moment I

Jay Ray:

say the name, y'all will get it.

Jay Ray:

I ll Cool J is number three on my list as rappers who are also butch queens.

Jay Ray:

So here's the deal.

Sir Daniel:

I see.

Sir Daniel:

Okay, go

Jay Ray:

You know what I'm saying?

Sir Daniel:

Well, he's the reason why we're talking about

Jay Ray:

here's literally the

Sir Daniel:

and I are, we had, we, Jay Ray and I had with them text conversations.

Sir Daniel:

I saw the picture of LL performing.

Sir Daniel:

It was in Philly,

Jay Ray:

Yeah.

Jay Ray:

For New Year's.

Sir Daniel:

For New Year's Eve, and he came out in a, a full

Sir Daniel:

mask and a, um, a, a fur bomber.

Sir Daniel:

And I immediately texted Jay Ray.

Sir Daniel:

I, I, I, um, screenshotted the picture and texted to Jay Ray and I said, wow, this

Sir Daniel:

is so, this is such, this is so ballroom of LL Cool j And I love it for him.

Sir Daniel:

It's so ballroom of him.

Sir Daniel:

And after I sent it to you, I was like, oh, we gotta talk

Jay Ray:

We gotta talk about this.

Jay Ray:

Yes.

Jay Ray:

Butch queens.

Sir Daniel:

You know what I mean?

Sir Daniel:

But.

Jay Ray:

No, absolutely.

Jay Ray:

Uh, so LL Cool j. Since he burst on the scene, and I, and I think people

Jay Ray:

will want to tie this to, um, the fact that he's light skinned and the

Jay Ray:

fact that he is kind of hip hop's original pretty boy in a lot of ways.

Jay Ray:

Um, but here's what made LL special number one, and skilled on the microphone, right?

Jay Ray:

So you were never going to be able to take his skills away.

Jay Ray:

But what took him over the top is he also knew, oh, but I look like this.

Jay Ray:

Right?

Jay Ray:

So ll.

Jay Ray:

Embraced the idea of kind of being hip hop's first, like

Jay Ray:

literally legit sex symbol.

Jay Ray:

Um, so this young man in the 1980s had all of these women swooning

Jay Ray:

over him, but part of what that.

Jay Ray:

Energy was, was the balance.

Jay Ray:

So when LL does, I need Love, and he is being like, you know,

Jay Ray:

sentimental on the mic, he's doing this at a time when rappers are

Jay Ray:

not encouraged to do that, this is.

Jay Ray:

Post run DMC when suddenly hip hop has shifted.

Jay Ray:

So if we look at hip hop in the late seventies, early eighties, we see a

Jay Ray:

lot of, uh, references to funk, which means flashy costumes, which means midd

Jay Ray:

drifts, which means leather harnesses, and all of that, which is a flashback

Jay Ray:

to seventies and also is queer coded.

Jay Ray:

Let's just say what it is, but.

Jay Ray:

Ll so under run, DMC shows up and is like, no, we wearing like jeans and, and,

Jay Ray:

and leather jackets and, and fedoras and

Sir Daniel:

ain't taking our shirts off.

Jay Ray:

ain't taking our shirts off, like, you know what I'm saying?

Jay Ray:

We men up in here ll shows up, posts that and

Sir Daniel:

That jacket is off shoulder.

Jay Ray:

that.

Jay Ray:

Right.

Jay Ray:

You know what I'm, you know what I'm saying?

Jay Ray:

Exactly.

Jay Ray:

You going to get all of it.

Jay Ray:

And so.

Jay Ray:

The recognition of the power in embracing that energy, that feminine energy, that,

Jay Ray:

that, that balance of the masculine and feminine that ll showed, I think

Jay Ray:

makes him number three on, um, uh, amazing MCs that are also butch queens.

Sir Daniel:

And I think LL is an amazing pick because my number two

Sir Daniel:

pick comes from the same, um, from the same era as LL Cool J and.

Sir Daniel:

And maybe it's because they're both Capricorns, but true to, um, the

Sir Daniel:

ostentatiousness of these, these gentlemen, and being an mc at, there

Sir Daniel:

was a time where at being an mc, just because you were rapping doesn't mean

Sir Daniel:

you weren't a showman, does not mean that you didn't show up on stage.

Sir Daniel:

Trying to get everybody's attention on you.

Sir Daniel:

You did whatever it took to get everybody's attention.

Sir Daniel:

For ll that meant, that meant unzipping his jacket, putting it off

Sir Daniel:

the shoulder, taking his shirt off completely and handing out roses.

Sir Daniel:

Anything to garner people's attention because, um, the butch Queen persona

Sir Daniel:

craves attention, loves attention.

Sir Daniel:

And I even, and the final boss, now that I think about it.

Sir Daniel:

Absolutely loves attention and a and as and, and true to MCs getting cre, um,

Sir Daniel:

getting attention and being recognized for not just your skill, not just your

Sir Daniel:

records, but what has your skills and your records and your dominance as a rapper.

Sir Daniel:

What has it garnered you?

Sir Daniel:

It's garnered you.

Sir Daniel:

Applause, screams and money.

Sir Daniel:

So my pick.

Sir Daniel:

Was absolutely the best at showing off his flavor with, um, with his abundance.

Sir Daniel:

And so that makes my number two pick slick, rick

Jay Ray:

I was wondering if he was gonna end up on one of our lists.

Jay Ray:

Yeah.

Sir Daniel:

slick.

Sir Daniel:

So, okay, so there's this long, this long going joke about, um, whether or

Sir Daniel:

not you can't tell if a man is gay.

Sir Daniel:

He is like, well, is he gay or is he British?

Sir Daniel:

And for.

Jay Ray:

Right.

Sir Daniel:

That's for, for anybody that has a British accent,

Sir Daniel:

a lot of people are like, well, is he gay or is he just British?

Sir Daniel:

And that is because British men, black, white, whatever nationality, um, that

Sir Daniel:

comes from, um, London and overseas have a distinguished way that to most

Sir Daniel:

westerners, to most Americans, seems a little soft, seems a little fay.

Sir Daniel:

And so what happens is in, in.

Sir Daniel:

When you show up like that, as a slick, as a slick, Rick did.

Sir Daniel:

He came, he came off with a, a panache, uh, uh, with a little laissez fair,

Sir Daniel:

um, attitude about him, and he's.

Sir Daniel:

Definitely was, you know, was a ladies man was definitely talking about the

Sir Daniel:

women and, and all the attention that he could garner from them, picking them up.

Sir Daniel:

His conversation with Mona Lisa and how he's, he was very fly with it and you

Sir Daniel:

know, and it's, that has to be said.

Sir Daniel:

Butch queens are very.

Sir Daniel:

Verbose or have a, a lot of them, some of them have a way with words and slick

Sir Daniel:

Rick, clearly the best storyteller in hip hop has a way with words.

Sir Daniel:

But I want to go back to the, to the, to the, to the ostentatiousness

Sir Daniel:

of it all, the presentation.

Sir Daniel:

If you've ever seen Slick Rick Live, what is Slick Rick gonna do in his heyday?

Sir Daniel:

Slick Rick would come out with a nasty old.

Sir Daniel:

Fur coat draped to the ground.

Sir Daniel:

His, his, um, his kgo, um, he may have had it on a crown kgo at the

Sir Daniel:

time and when he would open in such, open up that coat and flare.

Sir Daniel:

He is completely drenched in gold chains, and a lot of people will say that that

Sir Daniel:

points back to the, the African Kings.

Sir Daniel:

You know, the Thea, I hope I pronounced that.

Sir Daniel:

I hope I

Jay Ray:

Let us know and let us know in the comments.

Sir Daniel:

I'm sure they will.

Sir Daniel:

Um, uh, and being adorned in all the goal that you had to show that you

Sir Daniel:

have, that you have power, that you have money, you have all the things that,

Sir Daniel:

um, a lot of, especially black men, we want to have to show up in this world.

Sir Daniel:

And specifically because the world said that one, we can't have it.

Sir Daniel:

We shouldn't have it.

Sir Daniel:

And because we do have it, they wanna take it from us.

Sir Daniel:

So, um, I think that is why slick Rick in, in his brilliance and the way he shows up,

Sir Daniel:

and he's, what I love about Slick Rick is that, and I think that's what makes him

Sir Daniel:

attractive to, to everybody, is that he never tried to be the overly macho dude.

Sir Daniel:

He wasn't doing all of that.

Sir Daniel:

He too could give you a, a hip hop ballad with, um, teenage love.

Jay Ray:

Love.

Jay Ray:

Yep.

Sir Daniel:

And you know, and was able to still be fly with

Sir Daniel:

it and just, and just be.

Sir Daniel:

And so that's why, that's why I appreciate the butch queen in

Sir Daniel:

my number two pick slick Rick.

Jay Ray:

yes.

Jay Ray:

Oh, I love that pick.

Jay Ray:

Um, so my number two pick is actually more contemporary.

Jay Ray:

Um.

Jay Ray:

It's interesting, there's only one person on this list that,

Jay Ray:

that doesn't have slow jams.

Jay Ray:

It's kind of like a, a hallmark of on my list that doesn't have a slow

Jay Ray:

jams is not a hallmark of their thing.

Jay Ray:

But my number two pick is Kendrick Lamar.

Jay Ray:

Uh,

Sir Daniel:

Huh.

Sir Daniel:

Okay.

Jay Ray:

and, and here is what I think is so beautiful and brilliant about

Jay Ray:

Kendrick Lamar and actually was probably ultimately Drake's downfall, um, because.

Jay Ray:

Drake and the, the Kendrick and Drake battle happened post, uh, Kendrick's,

Jay Ray:

Mr. Morale and the Big Steppers album, which was Kendrick Lamar's, um, bearing

Jay Ray:

of all of these things that he had been a.

Jay Ray:

Dealing with talking about related to family and all of that stuff.

Jay Ray:

And he, he, he, he laid it all bare on this record.

Jay Ray:

So post that, when you ain't got nothing else to lose and

Jay Ray:

say, you know what I'm saying?

Jay Ray:

That's, that's like deep, oh, you going, like, you, you are

Jay Ray:

battle tested at that point.

Jay Ray:

What could this person say about me that I haven't already said?

Jay Ray:

I told you on the record already.

Jay Ray:

This is happening in my world.

Jay Ray:

Kendrick Lamar.

Jay Ray:

Uh, gives me butch, queen energy because once again, of the balance that he

Jay Ray:

displays in how he shows up in space.

Jay Ray:

I saw it on full display for the first time at.

Jay Ray:

The, um, super Bowl, go back and watch the Super Bowl performance

Jay Ray:

where Kendrick is showing up in with that wonderful gold broach that I'm

Jay Ray:

like, oh, that's lovely Kendrick.

Jay Ray:

The way that showing up doing this, and.

Jay Ray:

In militaristic fashion, doing all right and performing with

Jay Ray:

precision, but also commanding this space with this hot gold broach on.

Jay Ray:

I was like, yes, serve us, and it let me know immediately,

Jay Ray:

oh, this man is balanced.

Jay Ray:

Because let me tell you something, if you're not balanced and you are

Jay Ray:

living in this space of MAs, this hyper-masculinity or what masculinity

Jay Ray:

means, you're not putting that on.

Jay Ray:

You can't.

Sir Daniel:

Uh, it's so funny you bring up the Super Bowl performance, I think.

Sir Daniel:

Kendrick's, um, butch queen powers were on display the minute the camera

Sir Daniel:

focused on him and he locked into that camera and said, Hey, Drake,

Jay Ray:

Oh, well, that, that was peak book, but

Sir Daniel:

energy

Jay Ray:

literally.

Sir Daniel:

like, Hey, Drake, like, what's up, bitch?

Sir Daniel:

Like,

Jay Ray:

You wanna talk about big, butch, queen energy?

Sir Daniel:

Absolutely.

Sir Daniel:

It was like, oh, this man is a menace.

Sir Daniel:

And most butch queens, a lot of butch queens tend to be a menace, and we

Sir Daniel:

will talk about that when we speak on our final boss, Butch Queen.

Jay Ray:

Absolutely.

Jay Ray:

So, um, for me, um, it is the balance of things.

Jay Ray:

It is, um, ability, like slick Rick we just talked about like ll.

Jay Ray:

Uh, uh, Kendrick Lamar is a brilliant mc.

Jay Ray:

He understands the power of words, what words mean, how to use them,

Jay Ray:

and also like ll and like Slick Rick Kendrick Lamar might have the most

Jay Ray:

hit laden hip hop, slow jams catalog of any of any rapper of all time.

Jay Ray:

His slow jam was the biggest song of 2025.

Jay Ray:

The Joint with ssa Luther with SSA was the most streamed song

Jay Ray:

last year, and it's a slow jam.

Jay Ray:

And so for every record he's done, he has a slow jam on it.

Jay Ray:

So Kendrick Lamar is my number two pick, uh, for kind one of my

Jay Ray:

favorite hip hop butch queens.

Jay Ray:

Shout out to to Kendrick.

Sir Daniel:

Absolutely.

Sir Daniel:

You know what, Asha?

Sir Daniel:

I, I dig it.

Sir Daniel:

Okay.

Sir Daniel:

We're here.

Sir Daniel:

We're here at number

Jay Ray:

Who's, who's your number one?

Sir Daniel:

I think this is going to be controversial because of the recent

Sir Daniel:

shenanigans, but if you follow me for a long time, you've always known.

Sir Daniel:

I have always said that this, this man is a butch queen, and I've always, I

Sir Daniel:

said he, this is the, the straight.

Sir Daniel:

Well, at the time I would say this is my favorite straight butch queen.

Jay Ray:

Mm-hmm.

Sir Daniel:

Sean Diddy Combs

Jay Ray:

Oh my God, yes.

Sir Daniel:

is, for all intents and purposes, is the number one

Sir Daniel:

butch queen on my butch queen list.

Sir Daniel:

Now, the, the, the, the jury is out on him being an mc, but, but

Sir Daniel:

we cannot negate the, the history that he has had in the hip hop.

Sir Daniel:

Um, hip hop universe, we cannot negate the things that he has, um,

Sir Daniel:

been able to do and present while he was within the hip hop arena.

Sir Daniel:

And, um, working with a lot of, um, rap acts, so on and so forth.

Sir Daniel:

I, so it makes sense to me that Diddy is on this list because, um.

Sir Daniel:

Every, there's a bit of, there's a bit of stunt queen in every

Sir Daniel:

butch queen, and Diddy has proven time and time again that he is.

Sir Daniel:

He has pulled many a stunt

Jay Ray:

Yes.

Sir Daniel:

over the past three to four, three decades

Sir Daniel:

of him being in the public eye.

Sir Daniel:

Um, but I will say that all of the things that we spoke of in regards to

Sir Daniel:

presentation, especially presentation, um, as far with as far as black men

Sir Daniel:

wanting to show that they are, that they can be the flyest that in the room.

Sir Daniel:

That you are going to give him all the attention when he walks in the room.

Sir Daniel:

That is going to happen.

Sir Daniel:

And at a time, there was a time when Sean Combs personified that, and you can

Sir Daniel:

see that Sean knowingly or unknowingly, um, co-opted a lot of ballroom or helped

Sir Daniel:

usher in the co-opting of ballroom culture and queer culture by including.

Sir Daniel:

Maybe he, I don't know.

Sir Daniel:

He's definitely not the first to do this, but by including stylists

Sir Daniel:

who came from the community.

Sir Daniel:

Who come from the community.

Sir Daniel:

And so a lot of your favorite rappers, the way they showed

Sir Daniel:

up, the way they were dressed.

Jay Ray:

Yeah.

Sir Daniel:

Was a hundred percent facilitated by somebody who came,

Sir Daniel:

who came from the community, and Diddy and all his flamboyance.

Sir Daniel:

And all his grandeur.

Sir Daniel:

Uh, I mean, he was completely drawn to that.

Sir Daniel:

If, who, I don't know any other person that loved a cape more than Diddy.

Sir Daniel:

Do you remember that, that, um, met gala when he showed up with Cassie.

Jay Ray:

And it was like down and Cassie ain't nowhere to be found.

Jay Ray:

Child.

Sir Daniel:

ca baby Cassie is behind the cape.

Sir Daniel:

Cassie.

Sir Daniel:

He's got the cape draped open and Cassie is hidden behind the ca because this

Sir Daniel:

moment is about him clearly because mama was, mama was posing on the, on the steps

Sir Daniel:

with his legs, you know, um, perched and had the, and had the cape draped out.

Sir Daniel:

So you can get all of the, of the elegance of this cape

Jay Ray:

Butch Queen Energy.

Sir Daniel:

Big, big butch, queen energy, and it made, it always made me

Sir Daniel:

laugh because of how there was still, at that time there was still so many

Sir Daniel:

people, specifically, um, young black men that wanted to aspire to that.

Jay Ray:

Mm-hmm.

Sir Daniel:

Aspire to, or at least aspire to the heights that he had, he

Sir Daniel:

had risen to in our eyes at the time.

Sir Daniel:

And um, and I was like, y'all just don't understand that you

Sir Daniel:

all are being, um, glamored.

Jay Ray:

Mm-hmm.

Sir Daniel:

Being hypnotized by the butch queen energy, by the butch queen glow.

Sir Daniel:

And you just, and you have no idea because, you know, you think that that

Sir Daniel:

has nothing to do with you, but it absolutely has a hundred percent to do

Sir Daniel:

with you because you are part of it.

Sir Daniel:

It's, it's already in you.

Jay Ray:

It is already in every

Sir Daniel:

lot of you, all of, there's a lot of you out there that

Sir Daniel:

are get on these balloon pop shows and the way you, you, you, um.

Sir Daniel:

Downgrade the women that are on these shows.

Sir Daniel:

It, it is clearly giving butch queen.

Sir Daniel:

The way y'all talk about the women and from their hair to the, to their feet

Sir Daniel:

is, is a lot of butch queen energy.

Sir Daniel:

And, but you don't know that because I know you still have the,

Sir Daniel:

the, the blinders of, of hyper masculinity on, but enough about that.

Sir Daniel:

But yes, and you know how I know, and the reason why Didi also was number one on my

Sir Daniel:

list was because he was able to influence.

Sir Daniel:

Um, even the men on his label,

Jay Ray:

Yeah.

Sir Daniel:

you know, there was a time, if you look at the way the locks

Sir Daniel:

presented prior to the No Way Out album, there was a time you, the locks was

Sir Daniel:

just about, you know, they were regular

Jay Ray:

Tim's and James and

Sir Daniel:

teen shirts and Jays.

Sir Daniel:

Next thing you know, during in Suits.

Sir Daniel:

You know, shiny suit said that, and you know, because Sean understood

Sir Daniel:

that there is a, a valid, um, uh, there, there's a validity to being

Sir Daniel:

outrageous, to being flamboyant, especially in the entertainment category.

Sir Daniel:

So he recognized that and, and made that part of his arsenal.

Sir Daniel:

And for that and for that only.

Sir Daniel:

Those reasons only is the only reason why Sean Didi Combs

Sir Daniel:

is my number one butch queen.

Jay Ray:

Good choice.

Jay Ray:

Um, my number one is gonna be really controversial then.

Jay Ray:

Um, so my number one choice, um, is Tupac.

Sir Daniel:

so crazy that you said that Tupac was my honorary mention,

Sir Daniel:

but yes, I please speak on it.

Jay Ray:

Tupac is one of the architects of, I think, what it means

Jay Ray:

to be like a hard rapper, but also embracing the the butch queen energy.

Jay Ray:

So this became apparent to me.

Jay Ray:

I didn't know how to explain it at the time.

Jay Ray:

But the, I get around video is, I think the first time that it was

Jay Ray:

really apparent to me that Tupac was doing something different,

Jay Ray:

right.

Jay Ray:

With how, um, he presented.

Jay Ray:

Um, I remember specifically, uh, pieces of that video where I'm like, what is this?

Jay Ray:

What is this that nobody else is doing?

Jay Ray:

Right?

Jay Ray:

There's bubble baths.

Jay Ray:

There's.

Jay Ray:

Uh, there's all of these pieces, right, of the gold chains and all

Jay Ray:

of this, the shirt off with now the tattoos and all of that stuff, right?

Jay Ray:

And now as I reflect, I'm like, oh no, Tupac was given butch queen energy.

Jay Ray:

This is, so, if there was a category in Ballroom where it's like Butch

Jay Ray:

Queen Tupac would've got his tens, oh.

Sir Daniel:

Oh, absolutely.

Sir Daniel:

I mean, I'm sure that there were categories created for Tupac.

Jay Ray:

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Sir Daniel:

Oh, absolutely.

Jay Ray:

So same things as the other artists that I've

Jay Ray:

been talking about, right?

Jay Ray:

Um, uh, one, a really solid slow jams, uh, arsenal.

Jay Ray:

He's one of the, the architects of doing that.

Jay Ray:

You could hear Tupac rap Slow jams on r and b radio today.

Jay Ray:

It's a regular thing.

Jay Ray:

I hear dear mama all the time.

Jay Ray:

Um.

Jay Ray:

Word play Stellar.

Jay Ray:

Well read.

Jay Ray:

That's the other thing.

Jay Ray:

I don't know about ll but I absolutely know for Kendrick and I absolutely

Jay Ray:

know for Tupac, they were theater kids.

Sir Daniel:

Absolute.

Sir Daniel:

I, I thank you for saying that.

Sir Daniel:

Tupac was absolutely a theater kid.

Jay Ray:

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Jay Ray:

So those things that mayhem, um, uh, a, a good rapper, we haven't talked

Jay Ray:

about this, but I think this is really important and folks need to get it.

Sir Daniel:

Mm-hmm.

Jay Ray:

Hip hop has always been, you mentioned it a second ago,

Jay Ray:

showmanship, but it's, it's the, it's the theatrical aspect of rapping

Jay Ray:

where, especially if you're MCing.

Jay Ray:

You are a solo act.

Jay Ray:

You have to take up this whole stage.

Jay Ray:

There's nothing else with you.

Jay Ray:

There's probably a dj, but all you got is you.

Jay Ray:

And what makes you good at that is you understand the how to be on

Jay Ray:

stage and how to take up a A room.

Jay Ray:

And Tupac showed it in his lyrics and he also showed it as he became an actor.

Jay Ray:

So.

Jay Ray:

It is always interesting to me how if you look at the All Eyes

Jay Ray:

On Me Cover with Tupac, I'm like, y'all do realize that that's like a

Jay Ray:

leather corset that Tupac is wearing

Sir Daniel:

America's Most wanted.

Jay Ray:

Right,

Sir Daniel:

Baby him and Snoop Baby, that that is one old John Paul Gaultier

Sir Daniel:

corset that he's in and the hell out of it, but it is a corset It.

Jay Ray:

we just need to be really clear about this energy

Jay Ray:

and once again, what made it work?

Jay Ray:

Is he, I think he got it.

Jay Ray:

Like I think he got that this is the thing that it was gonna do and he, he

Jay Ray:

was probably, I'm sure, giving up, oh, the girl's going to love this, right?

Jay Ray:

Ladies?

Jay Ray:

I need you, you know what I'm saying?

Jay Ray:

Shoot.

Jay Ray:

The lady's gonna love this.

Jay Ray:

You know what I'm saying?

Jay Ray:

And so I feel like where we get in trouble to that point that you

Jay Ray:

just made, sir Daniel is young men and are, are, are being kind

Jay Ray:

of like, Ooh, what is this thing?

Jay Ray:

It's why y'all love Prince, right?

Jay Ray:

But butch baby, next level, butch queen energy, right

Sir Daniel:

Butch queen upping pumps,

Jay Ray:

up in literally butch queen up in pumps, right?

Jay Ray:

But what I want us to embrace is the fact that this energy matters in

Jay Ray:

all of us, and I think Tupac got it.

Jay Ray:

I think Kendrick got it.

Jay Ray:

I think ll got it.

Jay Ray:

They know what's possible when you are your full self and you are

Jay Ray:

balanced, and that's why we love them.

Jay Ray:

But yes, Tupac is my number one hip hop butch queen.

Sir Daniel:

Listen, love it.

Sir Daniel:

Because Tupac on was on my list.

Sir Daniel:

He was honorary.

Sir Daniel:

Yes.

Sir Daniel:

All of the things that you said.

Sir Daniel:

The flare for the dramatics, the um.

Sir Daniel:

The ability to, to to, to garner attention, um, to use, to use his

Sir Daniel:

looks, you know, use what he got a lot of, a, a lot of people are using

Sir Daniel:

what they got to get what they want, and he was able to, to tap into that.

Sir Daniel:

And I think audience, what you all have been complaining about, what we, we've all

Sir Daniel:

been complaining about what is missing.

Sir Daniel:

Is that a lot of people don't tap into a lot of these young people.

Sir Daniel:

Don't tap into duality, don't tap into, and they're not tapping into any energy.

Sir Daniel:

They're tapping into something dark.

Sir Daniel:

I don't know what that is, but I think what we are missing is that flare, that

Sir Daniel:

thing that excites us about each other.

Sir Daniel:

And you're absolute, everybody that we've listed has a, a plethora

Sir Daniel:

of, of fans and admirers of both genders, of all, all the genders.

Sir Daniel:

I'll say that.

Sir Daniel:

And, um.

Sir Daniel:

And again, as we stated at the top of this episode, this is no indictment

Sir Daniel:

on how they show up sexually in the bedroom because none of us

Sir Daniel:

know what they do in the bedroom.

Sir Daniel:

Well, maybe my

Jay Ray:

Well, I mean, your number one

Sir Daniel:

uh, maybe too much, but yes, I, I think this is a solid, solid list.

Sir Daniel:

But Jay Ray, we have to crown

Jay Ray:

man.

Sir Daniel:

We have to crown him.

Jay Ray:

Y'all, y'all know who it is.

Jay Ray:

Yeah.

Sir Daniel:

y'all know it.

Jay Ray:

Y'all know who it

Sir Daniel:

I'm honors please.

Jay Ray:

It's 50 cent, like there's n.

Jay Ray:

My dear God in heaven, there is no rapper walking the earth today that exudes.

Jay Ray:

Oh, but not only is he a butch queen, sir Daniel, he's a messy butch queen

Sir Daniel:

The, the most treacherous of all kinds of butch queens is a

Sir Daniel:

messy butch queen because a messy, butch queen, um, outta survival,

Sir Daniel:

like I said before, outta survival.

Sir Daniel:

This duality that they have to have in this world because of whatever

Sir Daniel:

circumstances life has given to them out of survival, um, at times

Sir Daniel:

has to become very ferocious.

Sir Daniel:

Whatever they do.

Sir Daniel:

And Curtis 50 cent Jack, um, Jackson has proven time and time again that he is.

Sir Daniel:

The only, I think messy kind of be, kind of belittles it.

Sir Daniel:

It's beyond messiness.

Sir Daniel:

It, it's a, it's a, it's cal, it's a very calculated way of living and it

Sir Daniel:

is basically, it's based on survival because nobody puts that much.

Sir Daniel:

Effort into being petty without it about being protection because there's

Sir Daniel:

something that he's trying to protect within himself and protect about himself.

Sir Daniel:

Still to this day, no matter how successful he is, he's trying to protect

Sir Daniel:

himself in a way that he feels attacked.

Sir Daniel:

No matter what you do, no matter what you say, Curtis 50 cent Jackson is

Sir Daniel:

going to find some way to outed you.

Sir Daniel:

And to, and to, and to read you in the nastiest way that he knows

Sir Daniel:

how, which is through what he

Jay Ray:

TV shows.

Jay Ray:

It's,

Sir Daniel:

buying, buying the rights to your life, going out to taking

Sir Daniel:

your baby mother out on a shopping spree and on camera and, and buying

Sir Daniel:

her houses and, and cars and, and giving your child a, a scholarship

Sir Daniel:

to whatever school he wants to go to.

Sir Daniel:

50 cent has and will do that just to assert his prominence and his dominance

Sir Daniel:

in this, um, field of entertainment.

Jay Ray:

my God.

Jay Ray:

Today, um, the.

Sir Daniel:

boss.

Jay Ray:

The final boss.

Jay Ray:

Um, sir Daniel, this was super dope.

Jay Ray:

I'm actually really glad we had this conversation.

Jay Ray:

I really hope y'all are here with this.

Jay Ray:

Yeah.

Jay Ray:

Like I, I think if there's one thing that we can do in particular as it relates

Jay Ray:

to black men, 'cause all of these folks that we're talking about are black men.

Jay Ray:

Um.

Jay Ray:

Is give brothers the room to express however it is that they choose to express

Jay Ray:

and not make it an indictment on their sexuality or their sexual orientation.

Jay Ray:

Um, because all of these men that we've talked about had the unique

Jay Ray:

opportunity to exist in their fullness.

Jay Ray:

Right.

Jay Ray:

And I think that's the piece that we need to give brothers the opportunity to do.

Jay Ray:

Not all of the best MCs are butch queens.

Jay Ray:

We only mentioned these because these are the ones that stuck out.

Jay Ray:

It's not all of them.

Jay Ray:

You know what I mean?

Jay Ray:

Because we need balance and we need difference.

Jay Ray:

And not everybody is a butch queen.

Jay Ray:

Not every gay man is a butch queen.

Jay Ray:

You know what I'm saying?

Jay Ray:

So give.

Jay Ray:

Black men the room to show up in the world however it is that they choose to show up.

Jay Ray:

And if we give brothers that room, we might get some amazing experiences

Jay Ray:

from them being able to do that because they can be who they are.

Jay Ray:

So that's what I hope folks take away is all the folks that we've mentioned, um,

Jay Ray:

have lived out, have lived fully, um, one.

Jay Ray:

Dear God, um, is the last year was a lot, you know what I mean?

Jay Ray:

Was a lot

Sir Daniel:

but see that's what happens when a butch

Sir Daniel:

queen uses his powers for evil.

Jay Ray:

right?

Jay Ray:

So there we go.

Jay Ray:

So see here we, and don't use your, so don't use your power for evil.

Jay Ray:

That's the lesson

Sir Daniel:

There.

Sir Daniel:

There it is.

Sir Daniel:

And you know, ladies, I, I do, I really want the sisters to pull

Sir Daniel:

up close to this episode as well.

Sir Daniel:

I think this really is, um.

Sir Daniel:

A prime example, a good lesson of why it's dangerous to label

Sir Daniel:

anything a man does as sassy

Jay Ray:

Yep.

Sir Daniel:

is very dangerous because it can, it can, it costs people their lives,

Sir Daniel:

it costs people their mental health simply because if, if you, if you don't allow.

Sir Daniel:

Men to be themselves in where whatever form that shows

Jay Ray:

Yeah.

Sir Daniel:

you are going to create monsters out of people who, who are

Sir Daniel:

not, who don't feel like they're able to do and be, then that.

Sir Daniel:

Anger and that frustration comes out somewhere else.

Sir Daniel:

Sometimes it comes out in a fist that's aiming towards you in your

Sir Daniel:

relationship because that man you are with has never been able to

Sir Daniel:

fully realize who he is emotionally.

Sir Daniel:

Because at an early age, he was told, uh, I'm, I'm breaking that right now.

Sir Daniel:

I'm gonna break that out of you.

Sir Daniel:

I don't, I see something that I don't like that makes me

Sir Daniel:

nervous and makes me unhappy.

Sir Daniel:

Uh, I'm gonna break that within you.

Sir Daniel:

And so you are going to suppress because you're not really breaking anything.

Sir Daniel:

You're suppressing and you're suppressing and pushing down.

Sir Daniel:

Emotions, energies that are going to show up in some form or fashion.

Sir Daniel:

And unfortunately a lot of men for that, for them, it shows up in violence.

Sir Daniel:

And so if we, if you don't want, if you want to curtail the violence

Sir Daniel:

and stop it immediately, I say you allow people to be who they are.

Jay Ray:

be who they are.

Jay Ray:

And it starts with, it starts with young people to that point

Jay Ray:

for, for brothers who are.

Jay Ray:

Who resonate with this?

Jay Ray:

You know what I'm saying?

Jay Ray:

This is where we've been having the conversation about therapy

Jay Ray:

and how important it is.

Jay Ray:

Um, this is where, this is the time to pull up, you know what I'm saying?

Jay Ray:

To your therapist to have these conversations, uh, in a very real way.

Jay Ray:

I love that we were able to do this 'cause we are not talking about nobody is gay.

Jay Ray:

That's not what this is about.

Jay Ray:

We're talking about the ability for black men to show up in the

Jay Ray:

world as their full selves and we all deserve the ability to do that.

Jay Ray:

Sir Daniel.

Jay Ray:

So thank y'all so much for hanging out with us as we explored, uh, this category.

Jay Ray:

Category is your favorite rapper is the Butch Queen.

Jay Ray:

And, um, if you enjoyed this show, uh, please subscribe.

Jay Ray:

Uh, you, wherever you're listening, right?

Jay Ray:

Um, but tell your friend, uh, family, friends, colleagues about the show because

Jay Ray:

if you enjoyed Queue Points, chances are they will enjoy Queue Points as well.

Jay Ray:

Visit our website at Queue Points dot com where you could check

Jay Ray:

out a whole bunch of episodes.

Jay Ray:

We have so many episodes that you can watch now.

Jay Ray:

And you could do that on our website@qpoints.com.

Jay Ray:

And uh, visit us on substack, where we have a whole bunch of content there.

Jay Ray:

And visit our store@store.qpoints.com where you can get some fresh

Jay Ray:

gear and the whole nine yards.

Jay Ray:

We appreciate y'all, we love y'all.

Sir Daniel:

We absolutely do.

Sir Daniel:

And so for everybody that, um, popped up on our list, come get your crowns.

Sir Daniel:

You got your 10.

Sir Daniel:

Get your, get your to trophy.

Sir Daniel:

You snatched this whole episode.

Sir Daniel:

You definitely deserved it.

Sir Daniel:

But

Sir Daniel:

as I always say in every episode in this life, you have a choice.

Sir Daniel:

You can either pick up the needle or you can let the record play.

Sir Daniel:

I am DJ Sir Daniel.

Jay Ray:

my name is Jay Ray.

Sir Daniel:

And this has been Queue Points podcast, dropping

Sir Daniel:

the needle on black music history.

Sir Daniel:

We will see you on the next go round.

Sir Daniel:

That category is closed and this was 10.

Jay Ray:

Peace, everybody.

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About the Podcast

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About your hosts

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DJ Sir Daniel

DJ Sir Daniel is a DJ/Selector and part of Atlanta's, all-vinyl crew, Wax Fundamentals. Co-host of the Queue Points podcast, he is an advocate for DJ culture and is passionate about creating atmospheres of inclusivity and jubilation from a Black perspective.

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Jay Ray

Johnnie Ray Kornegay III (Jay Ray) is a podcast consultant and co-host and producer of Queue Points, the Ambie Award-nominated podcast that drops the needle on Black music history. In addition to his duties at Queue Points, he is the Deputy Director of Strategy and Impact for CNP (Counter Narrative Project). A photographer, creative consultant and social commentator, Jay Ray's work is centered around a commitment to telling full and honest stories about communities often ignored.