The Art and Business of Songwriting (Guest: Brian Patrick Davis)

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Hey, Hey, y'all this episode of Queue Points may

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contain explicit language.

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Listener discretion is advised.

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Hey, what's up good people.

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It's Jay Ray, the co host of Queue Points.

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We thank you so much for all that you've done for us so far and enjoy the show.

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DJ Sir Daniel: Greetings and welcome to another episode of Queue Points podcast.

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I am DJ Sir Daniel.

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And my name is Jay Ray, sometimes known by my government

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as Johnny Ray Cornegay, the third, what's happening, people,

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DJ Sir Daniel: This is Queue Points podcast, dropping the

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needle on black music history.

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And guess what?

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J Ray?

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what?

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DJ Sir Daniel: We've survived the AT& T blackout of 2020.

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24.

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We survived.

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I'm still here.

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I don't know who was trying to get in contact with me earlier today.

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Listen, but I'm here.

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I'm still here in the words of Fantasia.

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So here's, what's interesting.

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I of course did not know that that happened today.

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There was apparently, uh, very recently to a T Mobile outage.

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It did not, it did not impact me.

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I did not know that it happened.

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Um, but apparently it did.

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So it leads me to wonder.

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What in the world is going on?

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Are the country people mad that Beyonce went to number one?

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I don't know.

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Are they getting in the internet and stopping people?

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I don't know.

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DJ Sir Daniel: I don't know.

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I obviously went straight to thinking about that Netflix movie with Mahershala

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Ali and Julia Roberts where all the phones went down and the next thing you

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know, nuclear bombs were being shot off.

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And so, We're not there.

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Thank God.

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So we're still here.

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We're, you know, no, we're not in black caves.

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We're not separated by city and state any like in the movie,

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but we're here for Queue Points.

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We're here to hear a lively discussion about black music and black music history

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and that's what Jayray and I do best

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a lot of there's a lot of overlapping in the conversation that we were

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having and the things that we want to talk about tonight and I can't

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think of anybody better to discuss that with than, um, tonight's guests.

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So Jerry, I'm going to let you do the honors and, um, I guess

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Yeah, this is so exciting that we get to have this guest on the show.

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Uh, both DJ Sir Daniel and I are fans of the work that they do.

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Um, and so I'm going to read, uh, read his bio and then we'll bring them on and

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they were going to have, uh, some chat.

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So our guest tonight is a Brian Patrick Davis.

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Brian Patrick Davis is a full time digital artist and admitted nerd.

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With over 10 years experience working as a creative force in the music industry.

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I'm a just add true and true.

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What's up?

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Born and raised in Atlanta, Georgia.

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Brian got an early leg up into the city's tight knit creative community.

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Brian has a large variety of interests ranging from film, photography,

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creative writing, and cooking.

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He loves Starbucks, Thai food, karaoke, and is a proud studio rat,

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frequently writing, writing, writing.

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Recording and vocal producing with several producers and some of the

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industry's brightest songwriters as a digital artist and creative director.

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He is heavily inspired by and moved by music, the compositions and

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lyrics vividly paint pictures that he communicates visually with vibrant

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colors and provocative imagery with digital artwork and prints.

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He expresses the clear.

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Correlation between aesthetic and sound.

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Davis lives in Atlanta, Georgia, where he continues to work and innovate with his

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team, the creative collective, et cetera, production group, though known for his

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infectious personality and fast talk.

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Brian has always been a little camera shy, but he here, right?

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So joining, joining the ranks of amazing co hosts at the crew love show,

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ace, ace and HD has been welcomed.

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New and it has been a welcome new and exciting challenge and we are so

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excited Queue Points family to welcome Brian Patrick Davis to Queue Points.

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What's up?

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Brian Patrick Davis: So good to see you guys.

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Yes,

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DJ Sir Daniel: Brian, do you realize this almost been what, seven years since

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I made my first foray into podcasting with the shuffle and repeat podcast.

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And Brian was my very first guest, um, to talk about your book, your debut

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book at the time songs about boys.

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Can you believe that much time has gone by?

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Brian Patrick Davis: as I said earlier, I cannot believe that much time has passed.

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It does not feel like it's been seven years, but if you say a seven, then

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that's what we're going to go with.

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Listen, um, I think one of the things that we talked about before

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coming on the air is how beautiful it is that seven years later we get to come

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back and just have some dialogue with you about this moment that you're in.

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And one of the first things that we want to do for is, is make sure that

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you get the opportunity to introduce yourself and your work to our folks.

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So tell us about your background in music.

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Tell us about, you know, et cetera productions.

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Fill us in on all the things.

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Brian

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Brian Patrick Davis: Okay.

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Okay.

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So, um, I have been, I'm born and raised in Atlanta.

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I know that's like a rarity, but I am born and raised in Atlanta.

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And, um, I've been around the music community for a really, really long time.

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Um, growing up, um, I was next door neighbors with, uh, my next

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door neighbor was best friends with like Jermaine Dupri and Da Brat.

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So I knew them.

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When I was a kid, um, I used to, like, go over, um, Chris Smith's house

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from Criss Cross when I was younger.

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They lived around the corner from me, so I've just always

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been around the music community.

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Um, I started interning at LaFace Records when I was, like, maybe 14 years old.

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And, um, From there, I just, I was just always around music.

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I was always around musicians.

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I knew a lot of recording artists.

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I knew a lot of people that were trying.

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recording artists.

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Um, and yeah, I was just super immersed in that culture and

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that community from a young age.

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Um, I went to Clark Atlanta University.

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And, um, as you all know, like, there's just a, uh, a wealth of, uh, musicianship

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and camaraderie at Clark Atlanta.

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And, um, I met people that were also songwriters and vocal producers

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and producers and just trying to, like, you know, find their way in.

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And at the time, um, right for this pretty popular black entertainment.

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publication called Concrete Loop.

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Um, and I was able to foster a lot of relationships with, um, producers,

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songwriters, executives, artists, um, any, anybody that I could touch in the

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music industry, I was touching them.

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A& R, just everybody.

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And it kind of, um, I was able to, um, form and build a lot

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of relationships through that.

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And that was kind of a way that I, um, moved into the creative sector

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of like, um, being a behind the scenes, creative in the music business

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when it came to, um, consulting, um, songwriting, um, doing creative

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direction, helping with photo shoots.

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Um, anything that was behind the scenes, creative.

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I wanted to be a part of, I wanted to have my hands in it.

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And, um, 2008 ish, I guess, I kind of like fell in love with the process of

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songwriting and being in the studio and just like, um, that energy is

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something that I still love to this day.

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Like, I love being in the studio.

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And so, um, Me and some, um, some classmates of mine, we formed this

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creative collective called Etc.

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Production Group, um, and we kind of like have coined ourselves as

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like a full service, um, artist development and production house.

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Um, and, um, really just, we've worked with a lot of people.

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I mean, we've worked with, um, Kelly Rowland, JoJo, Janet Jackson,

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Cassie, um, Janelle Monae, uh, we've worked with tons of people.

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Um, but our favorite thing to do is kind of like build our own projects.

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And so, um, as of the year 2022, like We had started getting back to that, um,

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you know, building something from the ground up from conception to fruition.

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That's something that we really like.

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That's our, that's kind of like our motto.

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Like we want to see things from conception to fruition.

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And so we've been really getting back to that.

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DJ Sir Daniel: the reason why listeners, why Brian, we asked Brian to be a part

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of this particular episode is because, um, you brought up Cassie, right.

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And, um, so Tiffany read.

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Not familiar is a music industry vet as a songwriter.

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She recently dropped a, uh, a very, a video that went viral where she

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was talking about songwriting and the disparities in the industry regarding

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songwriters and how they get credited or not get credited, um, as songwriters.

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And so.

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With she said a lot and but I want to hear from you Brian like What do songwriters

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need to do to protect themselves because that seems to be an ongoing theme not

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just with Tiffany But it's it's been said so many times over and over again.

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A lot of our legends have experienced You know, where they don't get full

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credit for the, the work that they put into a project, but, and here it is

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coming up again as a songwriter, what do y'all, what do they need to do?

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Because there's some songwriters listening right now to this podcast.

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What do you need to do to protect yourself?

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Brian Patrick Davis: I will say this.

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I think that as a songwriter, one, one thing that is very important to

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know is first who you're writing with.

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Um, I think a lot of times people think that they need to protect themselves

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just from artists and labels, but it is important that you protect yourself

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with other songwriters as well.

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Songwriting is one of those things.

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Okay, I like to, I like to describe it like this.

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And this is kind of like maybe an old, archaic way of looking at things,

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because, you know, like, contracts and the way that people negotiate

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their business and paperwork is a lot different than it was in the past.

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when I started out, but I like to think of songwriting as a song, as a pie.

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And so a pie is a 100 Um, in, in, in the beginning, 50 of that pie

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automatically goes to the producer.

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A producer is going to take 50 of the pie off top.

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The other 50 is for the songwriters.

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So that is why it's important to, like I said, to know who you're writing with

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and to have split sheets and to have conversations before you guys start to

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work on something together, especially if you're working with somebody that

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you don't know, because a studio can be a very, it's a collaborative setting.

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There can be people coming in and out.

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You might write with somebody that you've never met before.

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You might be in there with somebody that you've known your entire life.

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It just depends on who you're working with and work and what you're working on.

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And so you have this 50% You have to make sure it's fairly distributed between

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the people that worked on the song.

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So obviously if it's just you, then you take the entire 50 percent of the song.

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If it's you and somebody else, Depending on what you wrote and what

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the other person wrote, you may have an agreement to split the 50 up 25, 25.

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But if that person feels like they wrote more than you, they have to agree.

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You guys have to agree upon the percentages in the split.

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So if you, one thing that people don't know is that when an album

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comes out or an EP comes out or something gets released and the

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split sheets are not Um, agreed upon.

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Nobody gets paid.

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No one gets paid.

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So it doesn't matter.

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It doesn't matter.

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You know, like how many streams a song had.

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It doesn't, it doesn't matter.

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If you guys don't agree upon the splits, no one gets paid.

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The producer's going to take their 50%.

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That's, that's already gone.

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But the songwriters are the people that suffer.

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I think, The most important things are to always have an attorney, um, know

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who you're writing with, and then, um, don't, don't, songwriters at one

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point were so obsessed with publishing agreements, but You don't need a

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publishing agreement until you have a hit and you have like a catalog of hit songs.

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It's okay to, um, to, to, to not have a publishing deal, um, and

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still be successful and still eat and still be able to shop your songs

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to, um, the appropriate parties.

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Um, so I think those are the kind of like most important things as it pertains to

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protecting yourself um, as a songwriter,

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Um, you know, you bring up something really important and thank

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you so much for kind of laying out the way that process often looks for folks.

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You know, I think one of the And I would love to have you speak to

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this because I think one of the things that, um, may, people may

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not be prepared for is, of course, being in that studio setting, right?

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And not being familiar with how to have these conversations or just be one of

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those people like, I'm generally nervous about having these conversations.

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Um, I would like to ask this in two ways from your perspective.

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How did you learn how to do that?

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Right.

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And two, how can other people learn how to do it?

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Because I imagine there are folks that are like, Oh, that makes me nervous.

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Right.

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I don't know, even though I wrote most of that song, I don't know how

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to say I wrote most of that song.

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Right.

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So I'm curious, how did you learn how to do it and how can

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other people practice that?

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Brian Patrick Davis: So for me, um, I learned how to do it.

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I kind of had the luxury of being able to write with people I knew,

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um, and, and writing with people I knew was important because, um, we.

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always had an agreement amongst each other.

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Like, it doesn't matter who wrote what.

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If four of us are in the room, we're going to split it.

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equally.

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If three of us are in the room, we're going to split it equally.

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And that was kind of like the luxury that I had.

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Um, nowadays, I think one of the easiest ways to have the conversation

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is to have a split sheet with you.

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Um, the studio that I record at primarily now, he, the engineer, he

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has split sheets inside the studio.

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to say, Hey, look, this is what we did.

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This is what we, so that it's so that it's not a point of contention.

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When you walk in there, when you walk in there, you know that it's business.

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Everybody can sit down and say, I know what it is that I worked

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on, and we can be honest about what we worked on on this paper.

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Um, we talked, we kind of spoke about this in the pre show, um,

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when, before we got on camera and, um, you guys were talking about how

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people use smartphones in the booth.

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DJ Sir Daniel: Yes.

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Brian Patrick Davis: I write everything down.

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I'm a very visual person.

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I like to keep pen on pad.

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And so that's also your proof.

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is to show like, hey, look, this is, this is what I contributed.

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And, you know, I have proof that this is what I contributed.

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All of us should be writing in our notebooks.

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All of us should be, you know what I'm saying?

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Like there should be revised copies of what we've written.

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And so I would say, honestly, if, if you're afraid to have those conversations,

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just carry the split sheets on you when you go to the studio and, and let

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people know like, Hey, this is business.

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So we can need to make an agreement before we, before we start, before

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the vibe starts, before the, before we get into, you know, like, you know.

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Before y'all start drinking and smoking, I don't drink or smoke, so I don't know.

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Before y'all start doing all of those things, y'all need to sit down and first

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just break the ice and say like, no, look, this is, this is, although this is

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a vibe, it's also a business, and let's make sure our business is handled before

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we move forward with anything else.

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DJ Sir Daniel: And see, you read my mind because I was going to go there.

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I was like the studio, this is a creative environment, you know,

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and, and writers and musicians are, are, are creative people.

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And we like the vibe and when, and when that beat kicks in people, Oh, I got an

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idea and then automatically everybody just starts getting into this groove.

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But it's like, how do you, that switching.

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That code switching, if you will, of going from artist to

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business person is what you're

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Brian Patrick Davis: Also, also, Sir Daniel, another thing is like sometimes,

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um, I like to like, when I'm working with people, I like for us to separate.

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Even if it's, even if it's in the corner, like I will kind of like go off in the

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corner and I'll just kind of be like, you know, and then we come together and

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see what, and see what ideas work, what ideas don't work, what can be tweaked.

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I think that because the best songwriting to me is collaborative.

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I can't say, well, I'm not going to say I can't stand, but I hate, uh, I

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wrote, I wrote recorded produced engine.

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I, I, that's like, that's not fun to me.

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I understand how I understand that it's impressive, but it's

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also like, okay, it's very, it's a very Tyler Perry way to do things.

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And I just think, I just think that it, that the best music comes out

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of when it, when it's, uh, when it literally is like you bout you're

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able to bounce off of people.

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I think that that's the best.

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DJ Sir Daniel: There is a lot to be said for that, for, for those

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different energies to get together.

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And, um, and, and well, we, it's okay.

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So some questions have come up in the chat.

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Um, Is it like, do you hear, and this is, I guess like a, uh, what's in the sausage

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question when you're in the studio and you all get together, does it start with the

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instrumental before you go off writing?

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Or is it a, um, is it a premise that somebody says, Hey, there needs to,

Jay Ray: 00:21:51

we need to do a song about this.

Jay Ray: 00:21:54

Brian Patrick Davis: So,

Jay Ray: 00:21:55

DJ Sir Daniel: Jump off.

Jay Ray: 00:21:56

Brian Patrick Davis: so I think, I think everybody is different for me.

Jay Ray: 00:22:00

Um,

Jay Ray: 00:22:03

like I said, I carry a notebook with me everywhere I go.

Jay Ray: 00:22:06

So sometimes if a line or a subject matter or a word comes

Jay Ray: 00:22:11

to my mind, I will write it down.

Jay Ray: 00:22:13

But those things are never finite.

Jay Ray: 00:22:15

And a lot of those ideas I never even revisit.

Jay Ray: 00:22:18

Um, I think for me, um, I, um, I like to hear something first.

Jay Ray: 00:22:25

And this is the same way that I am with music in general.

Jay Ray: 00:22:29

If, if I'm just listening for pleasure, or if I'm writing, I

Jay Ray: 00:22:34

like to hear the sound first.

Jay Ray: 00:22:36

And then, if the sound makes me feel something, then I

Jay Ray: 00:22:40

can move forward with it.

Jay Ray: 00:22:42

And I can come up with ideas.

Jay Ray: 00:22:44

If the song makes me feel like this, then that's what I'm going to write about.

Jay Ray: 00:22:49

Um, and I, and again, um, thankfully, the guys that I work with

Jay Ray: 00:22:55

primarily, they work like that too.

Jay Ray: 00:22:57

Um, a song will make them feel a way or invoke a certain type of emotion.

Jay Ray: 00:23:03

And then, um, And then the concept will come.

Jay Ray: 00:23:07

Um, and a lot of times what we like to do is I could, if I showed you my

Jay Ray: 00:23:13

voice notes on my phone, like when I'm in the studio, um, I'll hear

Jay Ray: 00:23:19

the beat and then I'll just like ask the engineer to play the whole beat.

Jay Ray: 00:23:23

And then I'll just start mumbling or like humming, um, humming melodies.

Jay Ray: 00:23:30

And then we pick the melodies that we like the best or that are the most interesting.

Jay Ray: 00:23:36

And then we write to those melodies.

Jay Ray: 00:23:39

And then we figure out like, you know, is this, will this sound good as a hook?

Jay Ray: 00:23:44

Is this, you know what I'm saying?

Jay Ray: 00:23:46

It just, it's, It's like putting together the pieces of a puzzle.

Jay Ray: 00:23:52

DJ Sir Daniel: Jerry, you know what this, and I love this because now we get

Jay Ray: 00:23:55

to pick Brian's mind as a songwriter.

Jay Ray: 00:23:58

And what bringing up for me is so Luther Vandross has been in the

Jay Ray: 00:24:04

zeitgeist a lot because those first two debut albums are back, like they're.

Jay Ray: 00:24:10

circulation and they're about to be reprinted and all of that.

Jay Ray: 00:24:13

And, and, um, a few minutes ago, you mentioned those types of songwriters

Jay Ray: 00:24:18

who can, you know, they can do it all.

Jay Ray: 00:24:21

And of course, Luther is Luther is one of one, right?

Jay Ray: 00:24:26

But so I'm so interested, I'm so curious to know, like, as far as

Jay Ray: 00:24:30

songwriters are concerned, and it doesn't matter the genre, like who's

Jay Ray: 00:24:34

Brian Patrick Davis look up to?

Jay Ray: 00:24:36

Brian Patrick Davis: Um, I love Candice Nelson.

Jay Ray: 00:24:39

Um, she is one of my favorite songwriters just from a, like

Jay Ray: 00:24:45

a contemporary standpoint.

Jay Ray: 00:24:47

She knows how to do a lot of different things.

Jay Ray: 00:24:49

She has a lot, she has a lot of different bags.

Jay Ray: 00:24:52

She can do like super R and B shit.

Jay Ray: 00:24:54

She can do super duper pop shit.

Jay Ray: 00:24:56

And for anybody that's not familiar with Candace, um, she

Jay Ray: 00:24:59

had a long heyday with Timbaland.

Jay Ray: 00:25:01

She was a member of the clutch.

Jay Ray: 00:25:03

Um, she wrote the way I are.

Jay Ray: 00:25:05

Um, for Timbaland and Carrie.

Jay Ray: 00:25:08

Um, she wrote Resentment for Beyoncé.

Jay Ray: 00:25:11

Um, she's, she's just one of those people that can do so many different things.

Jay Ray: 00:25:16

And I've heard so many different types of like, sounds and vocal things from her.

Jay Ray: 00:25:21

Like, she's one of my favorites.

Jay Ray: 00:25:23

Um, Andre 3000 is one of my favorite songwriters.

Jay Ray: 00:25:27

His storytelling is just, um, Is A1 to me.

Jay Ray: 00:25:32

Um,

Jay Ray: 00:25:35

um, I love Pharrell Williams.

Jay Ray: 00:25:38

Um, like early-2000s Pharrell is like, I mean, I love a bridge.

Jay Ray: 00:25:43

So anytime you get to like a chord change and a chord progression

Jay Ray: 00:25:46

and you start doing some mo s**t like, that's like, I love that.

Jay Ray: 00:25:51

Um,

Jay Ray: 00:25:52

miss that?

Jay Ray: 00:25:53

Oh my.

Jay Ray: 00:25:54

Brian Patrick Davis: yes.

Jay Ray: 00:25:55

Yes.

Jay Ray: 00:25:56

Um, as far as like current people, like people that are, that are like right now.

Jay Ray: 00:26:05

Um, I love Victoria Monet's perspective.

Jay Ray: 00:26:08

Um, I think that she has a very, um, unique, uh, niche sound that is kind

Jay Ray: 00:26:16

of like, I don't know where it came from or why she decided to, to do that.

Jay Ray: 00:26:22

But what she's doing is Super effective and I just love it so much.

Jay Ray: 00:26:28

Um, I love, oh gosh, there's so many people.

Jay Ray: 00:26:34

Um, Teedra Moses is one of my favorite songwriters.

Jay Ray: 00:26:37

Um, she just be, she just be talking that s**t Like I, I love when a

Jay Ray: 00:26:43

woman can just talk and they talk like a n***a and they be like, you

Jay Ray: 00:26:48

like, that's, that's my s**t I love that s**t When I can see women just.

Jay Ray: 00:26:53

Asserting themselves and being, I love that.

Jay Ray: 00:26:58

Um, gosh, there's so many people I love.

Jay Ray: 00:27:01

Um, there's this writer, his name is Attitude.

Jay Ray: 00:27:04

Um, he used to be a rapper, but, um, he wrote a lot of like

Jay Ray: 00:27:08

pop shit in the early 2000s.

Jay Ray: 00:27:10

Like he was, um, instrumental on, um, Nelly Furtado's Loose album.

Jay Ray: 00:27:16

He's like super dope to me.

Jay Ray: 00:27:18

Um, uh, Sean Garrett, um, not Sean, not to be.

Jay Ray: 00:27:23

confused with Sean Garrett, the pen, although I do respect him.

Jay Ray: 00:27:26

But I'm Sean Garrett.

Jay Ray: 00:27:28

Uh, static

Jay Ray: 00:27:29

Static major.

Jay Ray: 00:27:30

Yeah.

Jay Ray: 00:27:32

Brian Patrick Davis: in peace.

Jay Ray: 00:27:32

Static major.

Jay Ray: 00:27:34

Um, Shay Taylor.

Jay Ray: 00:27:37

Um, Chanel from young money.

Jay Ray: 00:27:40

I mean, there's just so many, there's so many people that I just

Jay Ray: 00:27:43

love that I, that I think are, um, Candace Pele is another one.

Jay Ray: 00:27:49

Um, It's so many songwriters and I love.

Jay Ray: 00:27:52

Um, you know what this is bringing up?

Jay Ray: 00:27:55

I want to go back because you mentioned something really important.

Jay Ray: 00:27:58

And Sir Daniel and I talk about this a lot as well.

Jay Ray: 00:28:02

Of that, there's a magic in Just like a traditional song structure where you

Jay Ray: 00:28:09

got like, like when that bridge come and that stuff switch up and you like, yes,

Jay Ray: 00:28:15

ma'am, take us to where we need to go.

Jay Ray: 00:28:20

What will it take, Brian?

Jay Ray: 00:28:23

I get, I I'm fine with the short intros now.

Jay Ray: 00:28:26

I don't need 16 bars at the top.

Jay Ray: 00:28:28

I'm fine with that.

Jay Ray: 00:28:29

Get me into the song immediately, but don't, erase that bridge.

Jay Ray: 00:28:34

I need it.

Jay Ray: 00:28:35

You know what I'm saying?

Jay Ray: 00:28:36

How do we get back to that in production, especially when we think

Jay Ray: 00:28:42

of like contemporary R& B music?

Jay Ray: 00:28:44

What are your thoughts?

Jay Ray: 00:28:46

Brian Patrick Davis: what I'm, what I've noticed is a lot of time when artists

Jay Ray: 00:28:50

go to the studio, what the, what the producers are playing for them are loops.

Jay Ray: 00:28:56

They're not full.

Jay Ray: 00:28:58

They're not full songs.

Jay Ray: 00:29:00

They're not composed.

Jay Ray: 00:29:01

And I think a lot of artists especially, and I don't think that's

Jay Ray: 00:29:07

necessarily the producer's fault.

Jay Ray: 00:29:09

I think a lot of times artists are listening to producer's ideas and the

Jay Ray: 00:29:14

pro and the artist says, I like that.

Jay Ray: 00:29:16

Give me that.

Jay Ray: 00:29:17

I, I want that.

Jay Ray: 00:29:18

And so they end up a lot of times writing to a composition that's

Jay Ray: 00:29:23

not completely built out yet.

Jay Ray: 00:29:25

I think that's the first, I think that's the first problem.

Jay Ray: 00:29:28

The second problem is is that listeners attention spans are so

Jay Ray: 00:29:32

short now and people are people.

Jay Ray: 00:29:37

are listening to songs,

Jay Ray: 00:29:41

and I think this is a double edged sword too.

Jay Ray: 00:29:44

I think that it's part listener, sorry for that, it's part listener,

Jay Ray: 00:29:49

and it's part, um, it's part artist's fault too because artists have gotten

Jay Ray: 00:29:56

into their mind that they want to get their streaming numbers up.

Jay Ray: 00:30:00

And so they keep songs short so that when you hear it, you want to hear it again

Jay Ray: 00:30:07

because you're not finished with it.

Jay Ray: 00:30:09

And so you just play it over and over again.

Jay Ray: 00:30:13

DJ Sir Daniel: And so that's okay.

Jay Ray: 00:30:14

So then that's building up streaming numbers, which everybody is obsessed

Jay Ray: 00:30:18

with now, because that equates to dollars and which goes back to an off

Jay Ray: 00:30:24

camera conversation, another off camera conversation we were having about.

Jay Ray: 00:30:28

The musicianship of it all, or the lack of musicianship with, you know, the, a

Jay Ray: 00:30:34

lot of producers are beat makers where there are some that are actual musicians.

Jay Ray: 00:30:40

And you mentioned something very important, Brian, about the fact that you,

Jay Ray: 00:30:45

it's, yes, that's cool that you know how to program as cool that you know how to

Jay Ray: 00:30:50

play, uh, you know, a chord on a keyboard and loop it, but don't you want to, at

Jay Ray: 00:30:55

some point, Learn about core progressions.

Jay Ray: 00:30:59

Learn about theory is the exact word that you, that we, that you

Jay Ray: 00:31:04

mentioned off camera about theory and, and being able to, as a producer,

Jay Ray: 00:31:11

musician, partner with an artist.

Jay Ray: 00:31:16

and getting that out of them.

Jay Ray: 00:31:17

And so, yeah, and, but we're not getting that anymore.

Jay Ray: 00:31:21

One, because of what you just said about the, the mindset now of we've

Jay Ray: 00:31:25

got to get these listeners to, to, to keep these songs on repeat.

Jay Ray: 00:31:30

So we got to make them as short as possible.

Jay Ray: 00:31:33

Brian Patrick Davis: Yes.

Jay Ray: 00:31:35

You know what that brings up?

Jay Ray: 00:31:37

And this is interesting and interesting aside.

Jay Ray: 00:31:39

Um, I will never forget DJ premier talking about when he

Jay Ray: 00:31:45

worked with Christina Aguilera.

Jay Ray: 00:31:47

So he was like, Christina was interested in working with me.

Jay Ray: 00:31:51

He told the story.

Jay Ray: 00:31:52

He was like, she was interested in working with me.

Jay Ray: 00:31:54

So it was ain't no other man.

Jay Ray: 00:31:55

She was like, so I presented the song and she's she heard the song.

Jay Ray: 00:31:59

She was like, yes.

Jay Ray: 00:32:00

This, but I need a chord progression.

Jay Ray: 00:32:04

Like you can't, he just gave her the beat because he's a hip hop producer.

Jay Ray: 00:32:07

Right.

Jay Ray: 00:32:08

He gave her to be, he was like, no, I need a transition.

Jay Ray: 00:32:10

I need a chord progression here so that I can move the song.

Jay Ray: 00:32:15

And that was the first time, right.

Jay Ray: 00:32:17

For him that he's like, Oh, I'm now learning how to do this thing that

Jay Ray: 00:32:24

I never had to do in hip hop before.

Jay Ray: 00:32:27

But he had an artist that said.

Jay Ray: 00:32:29

Love that.

Jay Ray: 00:32:30

Great.

Jay Ray: 00:32:30

You got to take it further though.

Jay Ray: 00:32:32

And here's what I need you to do.

Jay Ray: 00:32:35

So that collaboration piece is so important.

Jay Ray: 00:32:40

MPN Network Mid-Roll Ad: What's the word everybody it's your man, Mr.

Jay Ray: 00:32:42

Al Peter, Mr.

Jay Ray: 00:32:43

Peterson's neighborhood and the NPN network.

Jay Ray: 00:32:46

And I'm here today to tell you about what the NPN network consists of.

Jay Ray: 00:32:49

The NPN network is an entertainment as well as a developing media company

Jay Ray: 00:32:54

based in Jacksonville, Florida.

Jay Ray: 00:32:56

Our goal is to highlight various creatives that exist in spaces of music,

Jay Ray: 00:33:00

visual arts, podcasting, and more.

Jay Ray: 00:33:03

Within the network, we have multiple brands that were parallel with

Jay Ray: 00:33:06

creatives, events, and other brands.

Jay Ray: 00:33:09

The Neighborhood Podcast Network is a collective of independent podcast shows

Jay Ray: 00:33:13

that has various topics ranging from the latest culture news, mental health,

Jay Ray: 00:33:18

sports, and leisure conversations.

Jay Ray: 00:33:20

We also have the Groove Suite brand that explores the realm of soul,

Jay Ray: 00:33:24

hip hop, R& B, funk, and more.

Jay Ray: 00:33:28

Our health and beauty section gives a view on how to keep yourself

Jay Ray: 00:33:31

in shape, in style, and in tune with your body and your mental.

Jay Ray: 00:33:36

Last we have the Fly Socks and Tees, an annual summer event that brings

Jay Ray: 00:33:40

creatives together to celebrate the past years and victories that were received.

Jay Ray: 00:33:44

So swing by our website npn llc.

Jay Ray: 00:33:48

com and subscribe so you can stay up on what's happening with

Jay Ray: 00:33:51

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Jay Ray: 00:33:53

Also follow us on our Facebook page as well as Instagram

Jay Ray: 00:33:57

and Twitter NPN Management.

Jay Ray: 00:33:59

Building but becoming.

Jay Ray: 00:34:01

To the top.

Jay Ray: 00:34:03

DJ Sir Daniel: So this conversation came up because it was sparked because

Jay Ray: 00:34:06

of the video of, um, one Tiffany red, who is a, uh, a legendary songwriter in

Jay Ray: 00:34:11

the industry and had brought up some.

Jay Ray: 00:34:15

Some issues or some things that she has faced

Jay Ray: 00:34:18

hmm.

Jay Ray: 00:34:19

DJ Sir Daniel: The industry lately regarding working with big names.

Jay Ray: 00:34:23

And Jerry, this is not the first time I've heard this.

Jay Ray: 00:34:25

Like we heard, we've seen it on the, on the liner notes.

Jay Ray: 00:34:30

Yeah.

Jay Ray: 00:34:30

DJ Sir Daniel: And so I think that's where a lot of questions are

Jay Ray: 00:34:34

coming up and I'm hoping Brian, you can help shed some light on that.

Jay Ray: 00:34:38

But what is the real deal behind working with A big name artists like your

Jay Ray: 00:34:46

Beyonce's because her name was brought up.

Jay Ray: 00:34:48

Not his name was brought up and those artists taking writer's credits if,

Jay Ray: 00:34:56

and they may or may not have like.

Jay Ray: 00:34:58

You know, put in as the kids, like, like, you know, it's like we, you ain't put

Jay Ray: 00:35:03

in on this, but they get credit for it.

Jay Ray: 00:35:06

So shed some light on that for us, because I believe a lot of people,

Jay Ray: 00:35:09

that's a conversation that has been blowing up on social media about whether

Jay Ray: 00:35:13

or not these artists that are on the forefront deserve this writer's credit.

Jay Ray: 00:35:21

Brian Patrick Davis: I watched Tiffany's whole video and, um, There are a

Jay Ray: 00:35:28

lot of, she said a lot of important things that, that should be looked at.

Jay Ray: 00:35:36

Um, I think the problem comes when people try to make it seem like,

Jay Ray: 00:35:46

yes, an artist may not have written a word, or they might not have,

Jay Ray: 00:35:52

let's just, let's just say writing.

Jay Ray: 00:35:54

An artist may not have written a word.

Jay Ray: 00:35:57

Um, but I'll use Beyonce as an example because that's, you know,

Jay Ray: 00:36:02

that's who people want to talk about.

Jay Ray: 00:36:04

Most people don't know.

Jay Ray: 00:36:06

As I told you, Candace Nelson, she's a friend, a mentor to me.

Jay Ray: 00:36:10

She wrote Resentment for Beyonce.

Jay Ray: 00:36:12

A lot of people don't know.

Jay Ray: 00:36:14

There are two recorded versions of Resentment that are out that you can find.

Jay Ray: 00:36:20

Um, recorded by other artists, two, two other artists that are well

Jay Ray: 00:36:25

known, one being Jasmine Sullivan and one being Victoria Beckham.

Jay Ray: 00:36:30

Mm hmm.

Jay Ray: 00:36:31

Brian Patrick Davis: Um, the song appeared on Victoria Beckham's album in

Jay Ray: 00:36:35

the UK and it, um, was in, in Jasmine.

Jay Ray: 00:36:39

It didn't appear on a song.

Jay Ray: 00:36:40

I'm assuming that it was a part of the sessions from when she

Jay Ray: 00:36:44

was working on her first album.

Jay Ray: 00:36:46

But if you listen to, um, the version of Resentment that Jasmine

Jay Ray: 00:36:52

and Victoria Beckham recorded, they sound exactly the same.

Jay Ray: 00:36:56

Not as far as vocals go, but just structurally, um,

Jay Ray: 00:37:01

the lyrics are all the same.

Jay Ray: 00:37:03

It ends all at the same place.

Jay Ray: 00:37:05

Um, the last line of, of that song I think is, This sounds like a 50's

Jay Ray: 00:37:11

record, but that's alright with me.

Jay Ray: 00:37:13

Whatever it is.

Jay Ray: 00:37:15

It ends that way.

Jay Ray: 00:37:17

Beyoncé's version of that song is significantly longer than what the

Jay Ray: 00:37:23

original version of Resentment is.

Jay Ray: 00:37:25

And I've heard Candice's demo of Resentment, and it's what Victoria

Jay Ray: 00:37:30

Beckham and Jasmine's Sullivan's version sounds like when I talked to Candace

Jay Ray: 00:37:36

about the session of resentment that happened with Beyonce She said that she

Jay Ray: 00:37:41

was not there The producer was there but when she got the song back it was

Jay Ray: 00:37:46

a completely different song background The arrangements, the writing at the

Jay Ray: 00:37:55

end, um, I know she was attractive, but I was here first, all of that

Jay Ray: 00:38:01

stuff, Beyonce added those things.

Jay Ray: 00:38:04

And so therefore she took, uh, she took some of the publishing on the song

Jay Ray: 00:38:10

That's how it works.

Jay Ray: 00:38:12

So if you leave space open on a record for somebody to put, to give

Jay Ray: 00:38:17

their input and they do that and they send the song back to you and

Jay Ray: 00:38:21

that's what it has on it and you agree to it, then they're going to get.

Jay Ray: 00:38:26

get credit.

Jay Ray: 00:38:27

Um, anything in the arrangement, the, um, the way that the vocals are

Jay Ray: 00:38:32

arranged, the way that the, um, the, the backgrounds come in, the stacks, if you,

Jay Ray: 00:38:37

if you didn't have anything to do with that, that is a part of the production.

Jay Ray: 00:38:41

That's a part of whether or not they get credit on, as a part of

Jay Ray: 00:38:47

the, as a part of the production.

Jay Ray: 00:38:50

So those things are all a part of publishing.

Jay Ray: 00:38:53

Now I'm not here to, to.

Jay Ray: 00:38:55

To be the person to decide how much publishing there is such a thing

Jay Ray: 00:39:00

as like throwing your weight around and taking too much publishing.

Jay Ray: 00:39:05

But, you know, what you agree, what you agree upon is what you agree upon.

Jay Ray: 00:39:10

And while I agree with what Tiffany was saying about, you know, like

Jay Ray: 00:39:14

people feeling like they're going to miss out on opportunities

Jay Ray: 00:39:17

by not agreeing to song splits.

Jay Ray: 00:39:19

Those are all real true concerns.

Jay Ray: 00:39:21

Those are all real true things.

Jay Ray: 00:39:24

But, um, I also think that a lot of the things that Tiffany was saying, too,

Jay Ray: 00:39:29

were things that were good soundbites, and they don't necessarily give a

Jay Ray: 00:39:34

holistic explanation of what publishing is, why a person would get publishing,

Jay Ray: 00:39:42

and why people get the percentages of publishing that they might get.

Jay Ray: 00:39:47

And Jontay Austin did Who I Love as well, by the way.

Jay Ray: 00:39:52

Recently, he, he made a, a, a comment, um, in regards to Tiffany's video

Jay Ray: 00:40:01

basically saying, like, think about Publishing that you would get on a song

Jay Ray: 00:40:08

that done by a colossal artist, even if you taking a smaller percentage of

Jay Ray: 00:40:14

that publish, that publishing and the stage and the access that that song

Jay Ray: 00:40:19

has and think about it in comparison to you getting a hundred hundred.

Jay Ray: 00:40:25

Yeah.

Jay Ray: 00:40:25

Yeah.

Jay Ray: 00:40:26

80, 75 percent of a publishing from an artist that is much

Jay Ray: 00:40:31

smaller that doesn't have the access as the larger brand artist.

Jay Ray: 00:40:35

You still are going to probably make a little bit more residual income off of

Jay Ray: 00:40:42

the person that's on the larger sound screen than you would getting a big

Jay Ray: 00:40:50

percentage, a portion of the percentage of publishing of a smaller record.

Jay Ray: 00:40:57

Brian, thank you so much for that really important perspective because, um,

Jay Ray: 00:41:03

I love, what I love about this dialogue, and I'm so glad you agreed to even be here

Jay Ray: 00:41:08

with us to kind of broach the subject, is there are so many layers that go into.

Jay Ray: 00:41:15

How this process works, right?

Jay Ray: 00:41:17

There is, it's not, it's not so easy to, it's not just one thing, right?

Jay Ray: 00:41:24

One of the things that, um, Kipper Jones did in his video as well.

Jay Ray: 00:41:28

We'll make sure that we put that in the description too, is talked

Jay Ray: 00:41:31

about kind of the structural issues.

Jay Ray: 00:41:33

Issues in place that also make this problem or this particular

Jay Ray: 00:41:39

thing show up too, right?

Jay Ray: 00:41:41

So there's like structural things that show up as well.

Jay Ray: 00:41:44

So there are so many layers to it.

Jay Ray: 00:41:46

And thank you for, um, your bravery and talking honestly about how this works.

Jay Ray: 00:41:53

So we appreciate that too.

Jay Ray: 00:41:55

Um, so you just dropped gems, right?

Jay Ray: 00:42:01

If you held a Songwriters 101, Brian, what would be some jewels,

Jay Ray: 00:42:09

one or two jewels, that you would want to make sure you drop on those

Jay Ray: 00:42:13

songwriters at your Songwriters 101?

Jay Ray: 00:42:17

Brian Patrick Davis: um, 1 I would say put your phone down and write down everything.

Jay Ray: 00:42:24

Not put your phone down because I understand you might need it to record

Jay Ray: 00:42:27

some, a voice memo or an idea, but I would just say to write things down.

Jay Ray: 00:42:34

I like to look at what the process was.

Jay Ray: 00:42:36

I like to see things scratched out.

Jay Ray: 00:42:39

I like to see where words were added.

Jay Ray: 00:42:41

I like to see the progression of what that looked like on paper.

Jay Ray: 00:42:46

I I think that's really important.

Jay Ray: 00:42:49

Um, 2 find people that you trust to collaborate with.

Jay Ray: 00:42:57

3 have a good face card.

Jay Ray: 00:43:01

Um, I think that that's one of the most important things people don't

Jay Ray: 00:43:05

realize that like people remember their first impressions of you.

Jay Ray: 00:43:11

Um, and, um, you know, like credit and, you know, And all and clout and

Jay Ray: 00:43:20

all of that stuff is, is one thing, but for people behind closed doors to

Jay Ray: 00:43:26

say to each other, like, Oh, I really fuck with her or I really fuck with

Jay Ray: 00:43:29

him is that that means so much more, especially when it's with your peers.

Jay Ray: 00:43:37

Um, 4 have a good attorney 5 and just be, honestly, like, really y'all,

Jay Ray: 00:43:43

like, just be open to like the process.

Jay Ray: 00:43:47

I think so many people are like, um, they like to pigeonhole

Jay Ray: 00:43:52

themselves because they're always like, Oh, I want to write a hit.

Jay Ray: 00:43:56

I want to get a hit.

Jay Ray: 00:43:57

I'm trying to get placements.

Jay Ray: 00:43:58

I'm trying to get placements.

Jay Ray: 00:44:00

But the thing about it is like, if you're just, if you just submit to the

Jay Ray: 00:44:04

process and and lay the groundwork by just doing stuff that you love and that

Jay Ray: 00:44:12

you trust something and that's honest to you, something is going to, to hit.

Jay Ray: 00:44:18

Hmm.

Jay Ray: 00:44:19

Brian Patrick Davis: If you're not being honest with yourself, if you're not being

Jay Ray: 00:44:23

true to, you know, like, because like songwriting is all about connecting.

Jay Ray: 00:44:29

If, if you're, if you're not connected to it, if you're not

Jay Ray: 00:44:33

connected to it, what makes you think that anybody else is going to be

Jay Ray: 00:44:37

Mm.

Jay Ray: 00:44:38

Brian Patrick Davis: if it's being honest with like yourself or listening

Jay Ray: 00:44:42

to what somebody else is going through and being able to like process that

Jay Ray: 00:44:47

through yourself, how you react to it and how it connects to you, then what's

Jay Ray: 00:44:53

the, what is the purpose in doing it?

Jay Ray: 00:44:56

If it's not true, if it's not true to you, then why would it be true to anybody else?

Jay Ray: 00:45:04

DJ Sir Daniel: And that that is the mark of a, a classic song is how

Jay Ray: 00:45:08

many people can actually relate to it and actually sing it like it was.

Jay Ray: 00:45:14

People want, people feel like you've written their life if

Jay Ray: 00:45:17

you've written a really good song.

Jay Ray: 00:45:18

So that's, that's a major, that's a major key.

Jay Ray: 00:45:21

Um, Brian, and Wow, you really, thank you for that.

Jay Ray: 00:45:25

That was a serious gem that you dropped.

Jay Ray: 00:45:27

Brian Patrick Davis: And, and, and print out those split sheets.

Jay Ray: 00:45:31

Yes!

Jay Ray: 00:45:32

DJ Sir Daniel: Not those switch seats.

Jay Ray: 00:45:33

It's business.

Jay Ray: 00:45:34

It is a business, folk.

Jay Ray: 00:45:36

And I think that, you know, a lot of what is going on and being said

Jay Ray: 00:45:42

is that people are tired of being manipulated by this industry.

Jay Ray: 00:45:49

There are a lot of people who are super talented, but they, they are

Jay Ray: 00:45:55

make, trying to make sure that they can eat, that they have a place to

Jay Ray: 00:45:58

sleep, you know, roof over their head.

Jay Ray: 00:46:00

And sometimes that does mean.

Jay Ray: 00:46:03

Keeping a nine to five so that you can, you know, in order for you

Jay Ray: 00:46:07

to make those dreams come true.

Jay Ray: 00:46:09

But while you're doing that, this is also a business as Brian stated.

Jay Ray: 00:46:14

And that has to be at the forefront, probably rule number one.

Jay Ray: 00:46:18

And it's, it's been stated over and over again, kids like Q tip said

Jay Ray: 00:46:23

it and the rules, like you've got to, to put your business first,

Jay Ray: 00:46:28

Brian Patrick Davis: It's literally, it's literally called the music

Jay Ray: 00:46:30

business and the music industry.

Jay Ray: 00:46:34

DJ Sir Daniel: curious

Jay Ray: 00:46:42

What is your hope for the industry and like a fair practice act for creatives

Jay Ray: 00:46:49

when it comes to music and musicians?

Jay Ray: 00:46:52

Brian Patrick Davis: I think that it is important that songwriters and producers

Jay Ray: 00:46:56

too, and vocal producers, engineers, I think that there needs to be, um, a union,

Jay Ray: 00:47:04

Mm

Jay Ray: 00:47:05

Brian Patrick Davis: um, that we need to unionize.

Jay Ray: 00:47:09

And I think that we would be able to, I mean, because the thing is

Jay Ray: 00:47:14

like the film industry and the music industry have so many parallels.

Jay Ray: 00:47:19

Streaming is king now in the film industry, which is something that

Jay Ray: 00:47:24

I never thought would happen.

Jay Ray: 00:47:25

But they've managed to come to an agreement about making sure people

Jay Ray: 00:47:33

get residual pay from, from, from writing scripted series, films, you

Jay Ray: 00:47:42

know, like, I think that that's, I think that that's important.

Jay Ray: 00:47:46

And I think that, um, I think that also too, um, as creatives, not, not

Jay Ray: 00:47:53

just, I mean, on the backend, you know, like producers, songwriters, we have

Jay Ray: 00:47:58

to stop undercutting each other too.

Jay Ray: 00:48:01

Um, I think that that's, um, I was really being serious when I said

Jay Ray: 00:48:06

that like, you know, songwriters, you gotta like know who's around you.

Jay Ray: 00:48:10

You have to know, because, um, there are people that are trying to get

Jay Ray: 00:48:16

to where you are, and you might not even feel like where you're at,

Jay Ray: 00:48:19

where you're supposed to be yet.

Jay Ray: 00:48:22

And so I think if we, um, kind of like, if we, if we can form a union, um, It

Jay Ray: 00:48:31

will help with us not having such a crab in a bucket mentality as well,

Jay Ray: 00:48:37

like vying for the same things and feeling we like we have to do undercut

Jay Ray: 00:48:43

Like underhanded things to get the same opportunities um I would like to see that.

Jay Ray: 00:48:49

And, um, sir, Daniel, I really loved what you said about like, um, you know,

Jay Ray: 00:48:55

the industry kind of healing itself.

Jay Ray: 00:48:58

And I think that that it's getting to that point.

Jay Ray: 00:49:01

I think that, um, I think that, um, there are just a lot of things, positive things

Jay Ray: 00:49:08

that I'm seeing change, at least from a face, a front facing, um, way, like, um,

Jay Ray: 00:49:19

there's this resurgence of vinyl now, um, And I think there's kind of like a purist

Jay Ray: 00:49:25

kind of movement happening where people are wanting music to be tangible again.

Jay Ray: 00:49:32

And I think that, um, I think that that's what's going to start changing the

Jay Ray: 00:49:35

quality of, um, the business practices that happen behind the scenes as well.

Jay Ray: 00:49:43

Mm hmm.

Jay Ray: 00:49:45

Wow.

Jay Ray: 00:49:47

Brian Patrick Davis.

Jay Ray: 00:49:50

Oracle, songwriter, creative director, all of the above, podcaster.

Jay Ray: 00:50:00

Um, thank you so much Fashion icon.

Jay Ray: 00:50:05

Um, you know, we are so honored and grateful.

Jay Ray: 00:50:09

You decided to spend your evening chatting with us here at Queue Points, lighten up

Jay Ray: 00:50:14

the chat, um, and really sharing, um, your gift and your knowledge with our folks.

Jay Ray: 00:50:20

So thank you.

Jay Ray: 00:50:22

Um, thank you.

Jay Ray: 00:50:23

Thank you so much.

Jay Ray: 00:50:25

Brian Patrick Davis: thank you guys.

Jay Ray: 00:50:25

And I apologize for my voice.

Jay Ray: 00:50:27

I'm suffering from an upper respiratory infection.

Jay Ray: 00:50:31

So I'm trying to get a wrangle on that.

Jay Ray: 00:50:34

I've got my good drugs right here.

Jay Ray: 00:50:37

Um, so I apologize.

Jay Ray: 00:50:39

But thank you guys so much for having me.

Jay Ray: 00:50:41

I appreciate it.

Jay Ray: 00:50:42

Um, conversations like this are always so much.

Jay Ray: 00:50:45

Not only are they fun, but they're just so important to have.

Jay Ray: 00:50:49

Um, and I just appreciate you guys and everything that you all do.

Jay Ray: 00:50:53

Thank you.

Jay Ray: 00:50:53

And for all of you that are watching, um, as we always say,

Jay Ray: 00:50:58

stay connected to Queue Points.

Jay Ray: 00:50:59

If you can hear our voices, if you can see our faces, subscribe, wherever you are.

Jay Ray: 00:51:03

You can sign up for our newsletter at magazine.

Jay Ray: 00:51:05

Queue Points.

Jay Ray: 00:51:06

com.

Jay Ray: 00:51:07

Um, and you can also shop our store, store.

Jay Ray: 00:51:10

Queue Points.

Jay Ray: 00:51:11

com, where we have some new merch and things out there for you.

Jay Ray: 00:51:16

Brian Patrick Davis: We love merch.

Jay Ray: 00:51:18

DJ Sir Daniel: absolutely.

Jay Ray: 00:51:19

Well, listen, everything that needed to be said has been said tonight.

Jay Ray: 00:51:23

This episode, this is one of them ones.

Jay Ray: 00:51:25

Jay Ray.

Jay Ray: 00:51:26

This is one of them ones.

Jay Ray: 00:51:27

So, as I always say in this life, you have a choice.

Jay Ray: 00:51:31

You can always, you can either pick up the needle or you can let the record play.

Jay Ray: 00:51:35

I am DJ Sir Daniel,

Jay Ray: 00:51:37

I am J Ray and

Jay Ray: 00:51:40

DJ Sir Daniel: special guest, Brian Patrick Davis.

Jay Ray: 00:51:43

And this has been Queue Points, dropping the needle on black music history.

Jay Ray: 00:51:49

We will see you on the next go round.

Jay Ray: 00:51:51

Thank you so much.