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Episode 224

From Schoolly D to N.W.A.: The N-Word in Rap

⚠️ This episode contains frank, unfiltered discussion about the N-word — its history, its use in hip-hop culture, and its cultural meaning. As two Black men exploring this word critically and with full context, we use it naturally as it appears in this conversation. Listener discretion is advised.

Jay Ray and Sir Daniel sit down for a conversation that's been a long time coming — a direct, historically grounded look at how the N-word moved from a household taboo to a fixture of hip-hop's mainstream lexicon, and what that shift means right now in 2026. Drawing from memory, music history, and current events, they trace the word's journey from the comedy specials of Eddie Murphy and Richard Pryor to NWA's Straight Outta Compton to the Kevin Hart roast — asking hard questions about who holds the power to use it, who's been given a pass, and whether the "reclamation" argument still holds water. This is the kind of conversation your older cousins were having at the cookout — except with receipts.

The Breakdown

  • From Curse Word to Lexicon: How We Got Here [00:01:30]
  • Two Gen X Black men map their own generational journey with the word — from households where it wasn't said to the moment NWA made it impossible to ignore in mainstream culture.
  • Schoolly D to N.W.A: The Songs That Opened the Door [00:04:30]
  • Jay Ray traces the word's early footprint in hip-hop — from “Scoopy Rap” (1979) to Philly's own Schoolly D and “PSK (What Does It Mean?)”, to NWA's Straight Outta Compton (1988) and Niggaz4Life — the albums that turned the word into a regular part of the pop culture vocabulary.
  • Respectability Politics & the "Public Lashing" Feeling [00:11:00]
  • Sir Daniel gets personal about his love-hate relationship with the term — and why hearing it used in mixed company always felt like a performance at his expense rather than a term of endearment.
  • Did We Really Reclaim It? Jay Ray Revisits His Own Position [00:18:00]
  • Jay Ray admits he might have made the reclamation argument 15 years ago — but says what's happening in the world right now tells a different story. The word hasn't lost its sting. It's found new ones.
  • White Entitlement, the Kevin Hart Roast & the Clock Being Rolled Back [00:13:30]
  • Sir Daniel connects the comfort level on display at the Kevin Hart roast to a broader cultural shift — one where white audiences raised on hip-hop are starting to feel like the music gave them a license that was never issued.
  • Fat Joe, Regional Politics & Who Gets a Pass at the Cookout [00:23:30]
  • The guys dig into why Fat Joe never stopped using the word, what New York's Black-Latino cultural kinship actually means, and why community accountability — not just geography — should determine what's acceptable in the booth.
  • Kendrick Pulled the Mic for a Reason [00:28:30]
  • Jay Ray uses the now-famous Kendrick Lamar concert moment as the template for what respect actually looks like from non-Black fans — and why it's possible to love the music fully without claiming every word in it.
  • The J.Lo Case Study: Jenny From the Block Gets No Pass [00:30:00]
  • Sir Daniel revisits Jennifer Lopez's verse on a Ja Rule record — and explains exactly why her Bronx roots and Puerto Rican heritage weren't enough to cover her when she stepped into territory that wasn't hers to claim.

Support Queue Points By Becoming An Insider: https://link.queuepoints.com/membership

#QueuePoints #BlackMusicHistory #HipHopHistory #NWA #KendrickLamar #BlackCulture #MusicPodcast

Transcript
Jay Ray:

This episode contains frank, unfiltered discussion about the N-word.

Jay Ray:

We discuss its history, its use in hip hop culture, and its cultural meaning.

Jay Ray:

As two Black men exploring this word critically and with full

Jay Ray:

context, we use it naturally as it appears in this conversation.

Jay Ray:

Listener discretion is advised.

Sir Daniel:

Greetings and welcome to another episode of Queue Points Podcast.

Sir Daniel:

I am DJ Sir Daniel.

Jay Ray:

and my name is Jay Ray, sometimes known by my governments as

Jay Ray:

Johnnie Ray Kornegay III, and Sir Daniel.

Sir Daniel:

Yeah.

Jay Ray:

you know, we have not had this discussion, and it is time.

Jay Ray:

We are gonna talk about newly minted, but not really new because it's been a while,

Jay Ray:

what we call the N-word.

Sir Daniel:

Neurodivergent.

Jay Ray:

No.

Sir Daniel:

Oh.

Jay Ray:

though.

Jay Ray:

But no, we are talking about nigga use in our

Sir Daniel:

Nigga,

Sir Daniel:

my

Sir Daniel:

nigga.

Sir Daniel:

Okay.

Sir Daniel:

All right, well let's talk about it.

Sir Daniel:

Where you wanna start?

Jay Ray:

So I think it's interesting I will tell you that growing up,

Jay Ray:

this was one of those words, at least in my community, that was

Jay Ray:

kind of like a word you don't say.

Sir Daniel:

I recall as a child, the, the N-word was almost like a curse word.

Sir Daniel:

And, um, I recall my mom telling me

Sir Daniel:

when, specifically when it came to

Sir Daniel:

the, to Black people using it amongst each other, she felt, you know,

Sir Daniel:

'cause this is a British West Indian woman, she felt it was crass and, you

Sir Daniel:

know, and and showed a lack

Sir Daniel:

of vocabulary if you were to use words, any cur- any word that

Sir Daniel:

was deemed, um, a curse word,

Sir Daniel:

profane.

Sir Daniel:

She said that it shows a lack of knowledge, a lack of

Sir Daniel:

vocabulary, you know, brain power.

Sir Daniel:

So if you were using that kind of, um, terminology, that you

Sir Daniel:

weren't, that you weren't smart.

Sir Daniel:

And so that was one of the... That was the foundation for me as far as

Sir Daniel:

using the N-word.

Sir Daniel:

But then it also became

Sir Daniel:

like

Sir Daniel:

when, you know, when you get around your

Sir Daniel:

friends and whatnot

Sir Daniel:

You can tell they...

Sir Daniel:

It was like, come on, it's just a, a term of endearment,

Sir Daniel:

endearment.

Sir Daniel:

And so I grew up with that perspective as well.

Sir Daniel:

I recall though, in the early '80s when we were

Sir Daniel:

growing

Sir Daniel:

up, it

Sir Daniel:

was like

Sir Daniel:

I don't know, it was something that comedians specifically

Sir Daniel:

like your Eddie Murphys

Sir Daniel:

and your Richard Pryors used as a punctuation for a joke,

Sir Daniel:

and it was, it was like the funniest thing.

Sir Daniel:

But I also remember It was

Sir Daniel:

fighting words.

Sir Daniel:

It was fighting words like,

Sir Daniel:

um,

Sir Daniel:

if

Sir Daniel:

you got into an argument with somebody, the, the argument, the,

Sir Daniel:

the punchline was, Nigga, please."

Sir Daniel:

Like, Nigga,

Sir Daniel:

please." You know, that was the... And that was the, the

Sir Daniel:

like the ultimate way of saying

Sir Daniel:

discrediting

Sir Daniel:

somebody or just wanting

Sir Daniel:

to

Sir Daniel:

take things, elevating things to another level as far as

Sir Daniel:

the argument, is concerned.

Jay Ray:

Yeah,

Jay Ray:

completely agree.

Jay Ray:

Same experience.

Jay Ray:

Um,

Jay Ray:

that particular

Jay Ray:

word, one, within the

Jay Ray:

household at that time was it might show

Jay Ray:

up, and, and often did in your, in

Jay Ray:

your, uh, to your point, in, like, comedy specials, so you would kinda see

Jay Ray:

people using it, or in

Jay Ray:

films.

Jay Ray:

Uh, but more from a either historical standpoint or a comedic standpoint.

Sir Daniel:

Mm-hmm.

Jay Ray:

it truly was on the list

Jay Ray:

of curse words.

Jay Ray:

It was up there with all the other curse words was also

Jay Ray:

the N-word, and it was a word you didn't say.

Sir Daniel:

Right.

Jay Ray:

and

Jay Ray:

so it really was interesting because we also

Jay Ray:

were part of the generation

Jay Ray:

that

Jay Ray:

saw that word just

Jay Ray:

kind of enter the regular lexicon,

Sir Daniel:

Yep.

Jay Ray:

of, of pop culture and,

Jay Ray:

that shift.

Jay Ray:

And I, I wanted to run through, 'cause this was interesting

Jay Ray:

in getting ready for this

Jay Ray:

show,

Jay Ray:

um, took a look at kind of the evolution

Jay Ray:

of the N-word, and we're specifically talking about hip hop, but also,

Jay Ray:

uh, hip- uh, the N-word also shows up in R&B

Jay Ray:

now, which, which, and, and, you know, has been for many

Jay Ray:

years, which was also different.

Jay Ray:

But

Jay Ray:

what's interesting is during the research, Sir

Jay Ray:

Daniel, at, at, the very beginning, N-word was showing up in M

Jay Ray:

rhymes.

Jay Ray:

So w- one early example, um, and I forgot all about this song 'cause

Jay Ray:

I hadn't heard it in a long time, but Scoopy Rap by Scoopy, that was

Jay Ray:

1979, um, includes the N-word in it.

Jay Ray:

Um, and there are several other songs that over time that were released and had their

Jay Ray:

own 12 inches that also included the word.

Jay Ray:

Scoopy Rap is one early example, but where things really take a

Jay Ray:

turn,

Jay Ray:

is of course as hip hop grows in popularity

Sir Daniel:

Mm-hmm.

Jay Ray:

people are

Jay Ray:

seeing it as this kind of revolutionary form of music,

Jay Ray:

uh, as does the, the use of the word

Jay Ray:

commonly.

Jay Ray:

And so one of the earliest

Jay Ray:

examples of that where the word is used prominently in the

Jay Ray:

song is of course Philly's own Schoolly D,

Jay Ray:

um, and the

Jay Ray:

legendary,

Jay Ray:

uh, PSK What Does It

Jay Ray:

Mean

Jay Ray:

the N-word

Jay Ray:

in that song.

Jay Ray:

I- it's crazy because PSK,

Jay Ray:

I

Jay Ray:

don't ever remember hearing it on the radio

Jay Ray:

here as a kid, at least not on

Jay Ray:

regular radio.

Jay Ray:

If you were listening to like hip hop like late at

Jay Ray:

night- ......you might hear it there.

Jay Ray:

But I got hip to,

Jay Ray:

uh, PSK just by hearing it from other people playing It

Jay Ray:

It was not something that I heard on the

Jay Ray:

radio.

Jay Ray:

But it included prominent use of the word, uh, of the word nigga in the

Jay Ray:

song, um, what we call the N-word, and that was kind of the first, uh,

Jay Ray:

really prominent use because this was a popular song in a hip hop joint.

Sir Daniel:

like you,

Sir Daniel:

I don't recall hearing a lot of stuff on the radio

Sir Daniel:

with the N-word.

Sir Daniel:

It was not until

Sir Daniel:

w-we got a little older,

Sir Daniel:

um, became adolescents, and we

Sir Daniel:

ventured into the golden era of hip-hop

Sir Daniel:

that I start... you start seeing, hearing nigga

Sir Daniel:

pop up a little more

Sir Daniel:

frequently in people's rhymes and in rap records.

Sir Daniel:

Um, like the one that keeps replaying in my head is Biz Markie's "The

Sir Daniel:

Vapors."

Sir Daniel:

And when he was talking about talking to a girl, and she was like,

Sir Daniel:

" Nigga, please, you work for UPS." But that's bleeped.

Sir Daniel:

It is bleeped, but you know what he's saying

Sir Daniel:

because Nigga, please" is a phrase.

Sir Daniel:

We all know, and especially if you grew up in the '80s, you know "Nigga, please."

Sir Daniel:

That's like a, That's a, a

Sir Daniel:

one word

Sir Daniel:

actually, "Nigga, please." So I-- we knew what he was saying even though

Sir Daniel:

it

Sir Daniel:

was bleeped out.

Sir Daniel:

So there was still some censorship around the use of, around the use

Sir Daniel:

of

Sir Daniel:

nigga.

Sir Daniel:

But then as We get, you know, and we're gonna talk about

Sir Daniel:

when we were introduced to

Sir Daniel:

" Ice-T, 6 'N the Morning,"

Sir Daniel:

and we're gonna talk now about

Sir Daniel:

NWA,

Sir Daniel:

then it's

Sir Daniel:

like all bets off.

Jay Ray:

Yeah.

Jay Ray:

Uh, NWA kinda becomes the, the gateway drug

Jay Ray:

to- uh,

Sir Daniel:

to- nigga.

Jay Ray:

being used in, in popular

Jay Ray:

culture.

Jay Ray:

so

Jay Ray:

in

Jay Ray:

1988 when NWA hits the scene with Straight Outta Compton,

Sir Daniel:

Mm-hmm.

Sir Daniel:

Mm-hmm.

Sir Daniel:

Bleeping.

Sir Daniel:

Sure.

Jay Ray:

you have the, the

Jay Ray:

album cover, which we've talked about on this show

Jay Ray:

in the

Jay Ray:

past, where you have the gun pointed.

Jay Ray:

They're, who, uh, the camera's

Jay Ray:

looking up at the members ......of the band, and there's

Jay Ray:

the gun pointed down at the

Jay Ray:

person.

Jay Ray:

And, um, Straight Outta Compton, which includes F the Police,

Jay Ray:

and

Jay Ray:

you have that

Jay Ray:

along with the name of the, the, the

Jay Ray:

group.

Jay Ray:

Now I,

Jay Ray:

at first when you hear

Jay Ray:

it, it, uh, i- i- you know,

Jay Ray:

I didn't know what the

Jay Ray:

acronym stood for, and then of course somebody told us what the acronym

Jay Ray:

stood for.

Jay Ray:

And when you're like, Niggaz

Sir Daniel:

Wit Attitudes

Sir Daniel:

Huh.

Jay Ray:

like

Sir Daniel:

Huh.

Jay Ray:

you

Jay Ray:

could say, you could just say that, like that could be the name of your group?

Sir Daniel:

Mm-hmm.

Jay Ray:

did

Jay Ray:

kind of open that door

Jay Ray:

to that word becoming a regular

Jay Ray:

part of the lexicon.

Jay Ray:

And then by

Jay Ray:

the time we get the second album, Niggas For Life, that's literally,

Jay Ray:

they spelled it backwards

Jay Ray:

obviously on the

Jay Ray:

record to

Jay Ray:

kind of like shield it a little

Sir Daniel:

Zagging.

Jay Ray:

yeah.

Jay Ray:

But

Jay Ray:

just the idea that that was written out on a

Jay Ray:

cover this variation.

Jay Ray:

So this

Jay Ray:

is also when we start to like

Jay Ray:

distinguish, I think, between the variations of the E-R

Jay Ray:

the A

Sir Daniel:

Maybe.

Jay Ray:

the A-H or the A-Z and

Jay Ray:

like

Jay Ray:

all of this other stuff

Jay Ray:

where it becomes like, no, when you say it this way,

Sir Daniel:

it means this.

Jay Ray:

endearment.

Jay Ray:

But if you say it that way,

Jay Ray:

it is racist and should be

Jay Ray:

condemned,

Sir Daniel:

And it's fighting words,

Sir Daniel:

yes.

Jay Ray:

words,

Jay Ray:

and it was, it was such a,

Jay Ray:

have been living this nuance since the

Jay Ray:

1990s,

Jay Ray:

I don't know if we're better for the

Jay Ray:

nuance.

Sir Daniel:

Hmm.

Jay Ray:

to if we're better for the

Jay Ray:

nuance.

Jay Ray:

And, and, and I

Jay Ray:

wonder

Jay Ray:

if we're not better because there's a whole generation of young

Jay Ray:

people growing up that don't have

Jay Ray:

the

Jay Ray:

visceral

Jay Ray:

reaction We

Jay Ray:

have.

Jay Ray:

We grew up knowing that if certain people said it in a

Jay Ray:

certain way, because we Black folks,

Jay Ray:

if you say this word in a certain way and you're this person, you don't

Jay Ray:

mean it the way that it's coming out.

Sir Daniel:

Yeah.

Jay Ray:

else

Jay Ray:

says it, they mean it that way, right?

Jay Ray:

We get that nuance, but we have a, whole

Jay Ray:

generation now that doesn't get it.

Jay Ray:

So I don't know if we're better off

Jay Ray:

for it, but NWA opened the door to the word nigga being used everywhere.

Sir Daniel:

I have had a, a love-hate relationship with

Sir Daniel:

the, with the term nigga.

Sir Daniel:

And, um, and I, and I can freely admit that it comes from what

Sir Daniel:

people call respectability,

Sir Daniel:

um, politics.

Sir Daniel:

You know,

Sir Daniel:

the res- respectability.

Sir Daniel:

You grow up with respectability pr- um,

Sir Daniel:

politics, you know.

Sir Daniel:

You grew up a certain way

Sir Daniel:

and, you know, you don't say those things, especially in front of white

Sir Daniel:

people.

Sir Daniel:

and again, like I told you, my mother thought it was a sign of a weak mind

Sir Daniel:

or a low-functioning brain.

Sir Daniel:

And so I've always grown up with

Sir Daniel:

this

Sir Daniel:

love-hate

Sir Daniel:

relationship with it because I know when another Black person used it

Sir Daniel:

against me, I didn't feel any kind of

Sir Daniel:

way.

Sir Daniel:

I did feel a kind of way when they used it in front of mixed

Sir Daniel:

company, and

Sir Daniel:

that was the part where that would always

Sir Daniel:

kind of make me cringe.

Sir Daniel:

And

Sir Daniel:

call it what you want, but it did.

Sir Daniel:

It just made me feel some kind of way because I always felt

Sir Daniel:

like that was in some form or fashion,

Sir Daniel:

um, like a public

Sir Daniel:

lashing And, uh, it felt like a public lashing, um, from another Black

Sir Daniel:

person in front of white people, and especially if they were trying

Sir Daniel:

to put on and they were trying

Sir Daniel:

to...

Sir Daniel:

You know, it was, it became like they were putting on a show in front of

Sir Daniel:

people, and they were entertaining

Sir Daniel:

and, you know, at my expense.

Sir Daniel:

And so I absolutely did, for that reason, I absolutely did

Sir Daniel:

not like

Sir Daniel:

and still do not like when other Black

Sir Daniel:

people use it in front of

Sir Daniel:

white people.

Sir Daniel:

And so here we are in this, which brings up another

Sir Daniel:

conversation

Sir Daniel:

about the reason, because there is a part of what you're saying, Jay

Sir Daniel:

Ray, is there's a, a new generation,

Sir Daniel:

and I think, uh, of young people that feel, especially white people, that

Sir Daniel:

feel it's okay because we're 50 years,

Sir Daniel:

quote-unquote 50 years deep into hip-hop.

Sir Daniel:

And so we've got several generations of young people that have been exposed to

Sir Daniel:

rap music, including white people, who now feel a type of ownership to this word.

Sir Daniel:

And this is where, this is

Sir Daniel:

what, um, grinds my gears, is that they feel an ownership to

Sir Daniel:

the word because they feel like

Sir Daniel:

because this is popular culture and popular music,

Sir Daniel:

that it belongs to them also,

Sir Daniel:

and that's where, and that's where, excuse my French, they get it fucked up.

Sir Daniel:

And I, I, it... One

Sir Daniel:

thing when we were just, when we were talking about having this

Sir Daniel:

conversation, I don't understand, especially when you've heard about the

Sir Daniel:

numerous, the history behind the word,

Sir Daniel:

um, how it was used, um, that it's offensive, why the insistence and the

Sir Daniel:

need, the bloodlust even, to use the word.

Sir Daniel:

And this has come up, I feel,

Sir Daniel:

um, f- this has gotten fresh for me after this whole Kevin Hart roast situation

Sir Daniel:

because

Sir Daniel:

it's like slowly but surely,

Sir Daniel:

they're, they're

Sir Daniel:

creeping towards bringing that, you know, use of the word back

Jay Ray:

Hmm.

Sir Daniel:

in

Sir Daniel:

regular everyday conversation.

Sir Daniel:

And I feel like it's, it's really dangerous because, and

Sir Daniel:

when you saw at the roast,

Sir Daniel:

you saw h- the com- how comfortable a lot of the, the white comedians that

Sir Daniel:

were on the show were so comfortable making these really edgy jokes that

Sir Daniel:

just stood on a precipice of being

Sir Daniel:

super... Well, they were offensive and, and yes, that is the

Sir Daniel:

point.

Sir Daniel:

I'm no stranger to roasts.

Sir Daniel:

I

Sir Daniel:

get it.

Sir Daniel:

So you can miss the whole stop trying to educate me on it's

Sir Daniel:

just a roast, it's comedy.

Sir Daniel:

I get it.

Sir Daniel:

I

Sir Daniel:

understand that part.

Sir Daniel:

But there is something insidious behind

Sir Daniel:

it, because

Sir Daniel:

you cannot tell me that there is not a correlation between

Sir Daniel:

what is happening with our civil

Sir Daniel:

rights

Sir Daniel:

And this continued,

Sir Daniel:

um, use and, and getting real familiar and comfortable with using terms

Sir Daniel:

that at some point, at one point white people were too scared to use

Sir Daniel:

when it came to talking about Black

Sir Daniel:

people.

Sir Daniel:

And that's the part that's getting my goat, and I, and that's why I

Sir Daniel:

just don't understand... Well, now I understand 'cause I just answered my, my

Sir Daniel:

question.

Sir Daniel:

It's because the, the clock is being rolled back, and

Sir Daniel:

white people are feeling emboldened now,

Sir Daniel:

like, You know what?

Sir Daniel:

I'm

Sir Daniel:

tired

Sir Daniel:

of being, of walking on eggshells around Black people

Sir Daniel:

and

Sir Daniel:

not being able to say this and that because it's offensive.

Sir Daniel:

Now, because they use it, it's been used in all the music that I grew up listening

Sir Daniel:

to and that I grew up and I'm cool because I know all the lyrics to Snoop Doggy Dogg

Sir Daniel:

and this and that so

Sir Daniel:

now

Sir Daniel:

I, I should be able to use it.

Sir Daniel:

It's, it's okay.

Sir Daniel:

I can

Sir Daniel:

use it."

Jay Ray:

Yeah, I absolutely agree with you, and I call BS on

Jay Ray:

all of that stuff that people are thinking.

Jay Ray:

and this is why I think history is so important, and I feel like to your

Jay Ray:

point, with all of the, the cuts to education, with all the things that are

Jay Ray:

happening as far as the, the, um, the legal, the, the legislation is concerned,

Sir Daniel:

So let me ask you this, Jay

Sir Daniel:

Ray.

Sir Daniel:

How do you feel

Sir Daniel:

about, um, the, the, quintessential white boy who's, you know, cool white boy who

Sir Daniel:

listens to, to rap music and has a Black friend, and his excuse to you

Sir Daniel:

Jay

Sir Daniel:

Ray, is, "Well, this is my

Sir Daniel:

boy

Sir Daniel:

He's, he's okay

Sir Daniel:

with it.

Sir Daniel:

He lets me

Sir Daniel:

use

Sir Daniel:

it.

Sir Daniel:

Who are you looking at

Sir Daniel:

with the side eye?

Sir Daniel:

are you looking at

Sir Daniel:

him or are you looking at

Sir Daniel:

the parents?

Sir Daniel:

Are you looking... No, you...

Sir Daniel:

I'm looking at the

Sir Daniel:

Black kid.

Jay Ray:

I'm absolutely looking at the Black kid, but I'm

Jay Ray:

going beyond the Black kid.

Jay Ray:

I'm looking at the Black kid's

Jay Ray:

parents.

Sir Daniel:

Okay, gotcha.

Jay Ray:

I literally am going to

Jay Ray:

the source.

Jay Ray:

So yes, I'm looking at that little Black kid and being like, "Oh,

Jay Ray:

this you?

Jay Ray:

Like, you letting him do this?" And then I'm looking at the

Jay Ray:

parents and being like, "So how

Jay Ray:

did you... How are you raising a

Jay Ray:

kid

Jay Ray:

allows a white

Jay Ray:

person

Jay Ray:

to say this word just like it ain't

Jay Ray:

nothing?

Jay Ray:

What

Jay Ray:

lesson

Jay Ray:

didn't you teach them that

Jay Ray:

allows

Jay Ray:

this

Jay Ray:

to

Jay Ray:

happen?" And so I'm looking, I'm literally jumping, yes, I'm looking at

Jay Ray:

that child, but what I'm really seeing is if

Jay Ray:

I move that child to the side, how did this child not learn

Jay Ray:

that they should not do this?

Sir Daniel:

And then it also... so then here's where the

Sir Daniel:

conversation goes.

Sir Daniel:

A lot of

Sir Daniel:

people like to use the argument, "Well, when

Sir Daniel:

you use a word

Sir Daniel:

and you repurpose

Sir Daniel:

it, it takes away the power, the

Sir Daniel:

negative power that that word used

Sir Daniel:

to have.

Sir Daniel:

And so

Sir Daniel:

when we say it, it doesn't have that power.

Sir Daniel:

We're taking away,

Sir Daniel:

we're reclaiming that

Sir Daniel:

power, and we're taking away the negative

Sir Daniel:

history of that, of

Sir Daniel:

that word."

Jay Ray:

I, if you had caught me

Jay Ray:

10 years

Jay Ray:

ago-

Sir Daniel:

Mm-hmm

Jay Ray:

15 years ago, I might have made

Jay Ray:

that argument, to be like, "You know

Sir Daniel:

Really?

Jay Ray:

I may

Jay Ray:

have.

Sir Daniel:

Hmm, okay.

Jay Ray:

about it like this.

Jay Ray:

I may have made

Jay Ray:

this like, you know, a reclamation of the word, you know, is happening.

Jay Ray:

it

Sir Daniel:

Now, you talking

Sir Daniel:

about amongst amongst Black people?

Sir Daniel:

I'm talking about... Okay, 'cause I'm talking

Sir Daniel:

about mixed

Sir Daniel:

company, 'cause

Sir Daniel:

that's the, the, ...that's the excuse that I'm

Sir Daniel:

hearing.

Jay Ray:

I've

Jay Ray:

never,

Jay Ray:

I- ......there's never gonna be a

Jay Ray:

point in time, I do not believe that word should be used in mixed company.

Jay Ray:

I do not believe that,

Jay Ray:

uh, folks who are non-Black have even the inkling that they

Jay Ray:

can even, uh, say the word.

Jay Ray:

Baby, if that word is being said and you're in that conversation,

Jay Ray:

you are in the wrong conversation.

Jay Ray:

You know what I'm saying?

Jay Ray:

This is a us

Jay Ray:

conversation.

Jay Ray:

So I think to-

Jay Ray:

I

Jay Ray:

think to those people who are saying that we are reclaiming the word, I would

Jay Ray:

say what we are learning in this moment in time tells us that that's not true.

Jay Ray:

That's not what's happening.

Jay Ray:

So if we thought that was a that that was a thing that was happening, that

Jay Ray:

we're reclaiming the word and it takes away the power of the word, what,

Jay Ray:

uh, current world is showing us is that's not what's happening at all.

Jay Ray:

It's gonna always have the same meaning.

Jay Ray:

Um, it is gonna always carry the same hurt.

Jay Ray:

And while that thesis seemed like a, a good one at the time, what we're

Jay Ray:

learning is that that is not true.

Jay Ray:

And I think we have to go by what we see.

Jay Ray:

It's just not a true statement.

Jay Ray:

That may have felt good at the time, but look at what's going on.

Jay Ray:

Is that still true?

Jay Ray:

You still believe that now?

Sir Daniel:

Right.

Sir Daniel:

And again, it goes back to my earlier point, and I'm gonna segue into another

Sir Daniel:

section in just

Sir Daniel:

a second.

Sir Daniel:

But it goes back to

Sir Daniel:

my earlier point, if we have told

Sir Daniel:

you time

Sir Daniel:

and time

Sir Daniel:

again, and have shown you the history

Sir Daniel:

about

Sir Daniel:

this word, and that how we deem it disrespectful when it comes from you, how

Sir Daniel:

we deem it disrespectful, hurtful, and

Sir Daniel:

harmful,

Sir Daniel:

why do you insist

Sir Daniel:

on continuing to lust after using the word if in fact, if

Sir Daniel:

in fact you don't f- you don't

Sir Daniel:

respect us?

Sir Daniel:

you literally have no respect

Sir Daniel:

for us.

Sir Daniel:

That's, That's,

Sir Daniel:

just my...

Sir Daniel:

The-- That's where I stop

Sir Daniel:

when it

Sir Daniel:

comes to, to non-Black people

Sir Daniel:

wanting to use that word

Sir Daniel:

lustfully.

Sir Daniel:

And so that takes me to this issue about

Sir Daniel:

region, where you grow up regionally in the United States, and back to the

Sir Daniel:

music.

Sir Daniel:

Because I

Sir Daniel:

I saw something online recently where

Sir Daniel:

some, some white young man who grew up in Florida, somewhere in Florida, um,

Sir Daniel:

was insistent on saying that,

Sir Daniel:

"Hey, that's a

Sir Daniel:

word that we use here.

Sir Daniel:

And

Sir Daniel:

if you, And if you're coming from the North or wherever,

Sir Daniel:

y- and you feel insulted, you're

Sir Daniel:

just gonna have to be insulted because we use that word, and it's not...

Sir Daniel:

A- and we use it interchangeably, and we use it because it's, it's

Sir Daniel:

just a word." And I was like, That's

Sir Daniel:

insane,"

Sir Daniel:

because why... Again, to my, what I've said before is why do you feel like you

Sir Daniel:

can use it?

Sir Daniel:

I don't care about your regional politics

Sir Daniel:

and, you know, because you've used it... And again, the Black people

Sir Daniel:

have,

Sir Daniel:

have given people passes to use the word.

Sir Daniel:

Here we are at the cookout

Sir Daniel:

again, um, giving passes and to use this word.

Sir Daniel:

And so that then moves into the music,

Sir Daniel:

because a lot of these people, um,

Sir Daniel:

feel that if they're in this setting of hip-hop and rap music, that they have

Sir Daniel:

permission to use the word.

Sir Daniel:

And there are some,

Sir Daniel:

uh, artists who just feel

Sir Daniel:

emboled and empoweredwer to use the word.

Sir Daniel:

Non-Black artists, especially there's a few whites, but then mostly,

Sir Daniel:

um, Mexican and Hispanic,

Sir Daniel:

Mexican, uh, rappers.

Sir Daniel:

There was one in particular, I

Sir Daniel:

think OT something, OT Mexican or whatever, I can't remember his name.

Sir Daniel:

But I mean, are going hard, hard,

Sir Daniel:

hard

Sir Daniel:

to use the word nigga in

Sir Daniel:

his raps.

Sir Daniel:

Even after people were saying, "No, we don't wanna hear that coming from you.

Sir Daniel:

We don't wanna hear

Sir Daniel:

that." but--

Sir Daniel:

I grew up in, in, in the

Sir Daniel:

hood, "...and this is what we do."

Jay Ray:

So here's the thing.

Jay Ray:

Here's what I say to

Jay Ray:

that.

Jay Ray:

One, learn the history

Jay Ray:

and learn the reason why Black folks are, saying that this is

Jay Ray:

not something that you should do.

Jay Ray:

That's just respectful.

Jay Ray:

One, that's

Jay Ray:

just respect.

Jay Ray:

you're learning the history, and then you're respecting the

Jay Ray:

wishes of the people that

Jay Ray:

that

Jay Ray:

word impacts.

Jay Ray:

So show respect from that perspective.

Jay Ray:

Two, is if you can't find another word and you are, like, in your

Jay Ray:

loins, like, "I need to use.

Jay Ray:

this

Jay Ray:

word," you're a lazy songwriter

Jay Ray:

anyway.

Jay Ray:

a, a, a, a billions, I don't know how many words in the, the,

Sir Daniel:

There's a whole thesaurus

Jay Ray:

thesaurus of words

Sir Daniel:

could use.

Jay Ray:

right?

Jay Ray:

Pick another word.

Jay Ray:

You know

Sir Daniel:

But then Jay- but then Jay Ray, we've given passes to certain

Sir Daniel:

people.

Sir Daniel:

Like this came up a few years ago with Fat Joe,

Jay Ray:

Mm-hmm.

Sir Daniel:

and Fat Joe

Sir Daniel:

is

Sir Daniel:

like, Fat Joe has literally

Sir Daniel:

stop- put his foot down and says, "No, I'm using that word," because in some form

Sir Daniel:

or fashion he feels like he's earned it.

Sir Daniel:

And again, we're

Sir Daniel:

talking about region... But again, we, we talking about regions,

Sir Daniel:

and as somebody who g- who grew up in New York,

Sir Daniel:

I

Sir Daniel:

can attest that this does

Sir Daniel:

happen,

Sir Daniel:

that because, um, certain minorities, particularly,

Sir Daniel:

um, Black, uh, Caribbean, Latino, Afro-Latino c- um, communities

Sir Daniel:

feel a kinship.

Sir Daniel:

And, and so when

Sir Daniel:

you're in that region, especially New York is big, but it's really not.

Sir Daniel:

It's a, it's a, it's a, big compact city at the same time.

Sir Daniel:

It's hard

Sir Daniel:

to explain.

Sir Daniel:

But when you start using those words, especially when you're talking about

Sir Daniel:

hip-hop, the n- nigga

Sir Daniel:

started being co-opted by Puerto Ricans,

Sir Daniel:

et cetera.

Sir Daniel:

And so that's why,

Sir Daniel:

um,

Sir Daniel:

Fat Joe insists that he

Sir Daniel:

can use the word nigga because he grew up in the, um, community, he grew up

Sir Daniel:

in the culture, he's

Sir Daniel:

a street

Sir Daniel:

legend, so on and so forth.

Sir Daniel:

And I think

Sir Daniel:

on

Sir Daniel:

some level we stop pushing back on that because now Joe, you know-

Sir Daniel:

That's Fat Joe.

Sir Daniel:

And so apparently they've given

Sir Daniel:

him, we've given him a pass to use the N-word

Sir Daniel:

because he is Latino, and some

Sir Daniel:

people

Jay Ray:

so is where

Jay Ray:

I

Jay Ray:

feel like

Jay Ray:

community

Jay Ray:

becomes really

Jay Ray:

important, right?

Jay Ray:

Joe, as an MC,

Jay Ray:

has to go into the

Jay Ray:

studio and sit with engineers,

Jay Ray:

and

Jay Ray:

producers, and

Jay Ray:

people who are, who are there to help

Jay Ray:

shape and mold.

Jay Ray:

If those people

Jay Ray:

who are, he's in community

Jay Ray:

with, once again, are

Jay Ray:

" like,

Jay Ray:

Nah,

Jay Ray:

this is good,"

Sir Daniel:

Yeah.

Jay Ray:

Then of course it's gonna be good to him.

Jay Ray:

Like,

Sir Daniel:

He's emboldened, yes.

Jay Ray:

in community with have said that this

Jay Ray:

is good.

Jay Ray:

So this is why I feel

Jay Ray:

like this is where, like, history,

Jay Ray:

this is where I feel like community

Jay Ray:

becomes

Jay Ray:

really important.

Jay Ray:

Because

Jay Ray:

" we as Black

Jay Ray:

folks, have the power literally

Jay Ray:

over if people can say the

Jay Ray:

word or not.

Jay Ray:

You know what I'm saying?

Jay Ray:

there are words that, Sir

Jay Ray:

Daniel, you and I cannot say as it relates to other communities.

Jay Ray:

It would be

Jay Ray:

offensive, and it would get us canceled immediately.

Jay Ray:

We

Sir Daniel:

For sure.

Jay Ray:

them, period.

Jay Ray:

There's not even a question if we can

Jay Ray:

say it or not.

Jay Ray:

So if we know that as

Jay Ray:

Black

Jay Ray:

people, if we know that as Black folks that there are

Jay Ray:

words that we

Jay Ray:

cannot say or it will be detrimental to

Jay Ray:

our careers and everything, and one,

Jay Ray:

it's just offensive if, uh, uh, and we get that

Jay Ray:

as Black people, why do we

Jay Ray:

let other people do it?

Jay Ray:

And I feel like that's the thing we

Jay Ray:

gotta own

Jay Ray:

is it's

Sir Daniel:

we gotta own that.

Jay Ray:

gotta own like,

Jay Ray:

"No,

Sir Daniel:

we

Jay Ray:

get to control it, and it's absolutely not.

Jay Ray:

No.

Jay Ray:

No,

Jay Ray:

Joe, you were in the studio, you gotta change that line, bro.

Jay Ray:

cannot say that word.

Jay Ray:

Nah, not on record."

Sir Daniel:

And, and, and his... So here's the thing.

Sir Daniel:

Uh, we are the epitome of cool Black people in this country.

Sir Daniel:

We are the epitome of cool, and so when we say something is

Sir Daniel:

cool, it's cool.

Sir Daniel:

It goes back to my argument

Sir Daniel:

about the, the, um, the cookout,

Sir Daniel:

the picnics, all of that.

Sir Daniel:

It cheapens our brand as Black people when we

Sir Daniel:

give out

Sir Daniel:

and lend out cool and lend

Sir Daniel:

out shine to anybody that just because

Sir Daniel:

they're white and they can carry

Sir Daniel:

off or they can perform what we deem

Sir Daniel:

as Blackness.

Sir Daniel:

And so that is it, and it cheapens our brand as

Sir Daniel:

Black people.

Sir Daniel:

It's just like they say, you do not slap a pair of

Sir Daniel:

rims

Sir Daniel:

on a Jaguar

Jay Ray:

Mm-hmm.

Sir Daniel:

or a Rolls-Royce.

Sir Daniel:

You don't put no rims on a Rolls-Royce.

Sir Daniel:

That is ruining the brand of a-

Sir Daniel:

Rolls-Royce.

Sir Daniel:

And they help, they uphold that brand.

Sir Daniel:

They will not allow you to do anything

Sir Daniel:

to that car,

Sir Daniel:

to that brand, because they realize how

Sir Daniel:

special it is and to

Sir Daniel:

protect

Sir Daniel:

it.

Sir Daniel:

Black culture is the Rolls-Royce of cultures.

Jay Ray:

We have to believe that

Jay Ray:

about ourselves, because if we

Sir Daniel:

Yes.

Jay Ray:

ourse- Here is my

Jay Ray:

vision.

Jay Ray:

here here would be my ultimate

Jay Ray:

vision for, for this, right?

Sir Daniel:

Mm-hmm.

Jay Ray:

uh, moment of, of, the Kendrick

Jay Ray:

Lamar experience with, like, the fan

Jay Ray:

on the

Jay Ray:

stage, where they're doing the song, the song, the song, and Kendrick,

Jay Ray:

like, gets that mic and is like, "Nah,

Jay Ray:

What You Nuh-uh."

Sir Daniel:

Nope.

Jay Ray:

And, And, what I love about that lesson though

Jay Ray:

is that

Jay Ray:

teaches the respect.

Jay Ray:

We not saying that you can't rap-

Jay Ray:

All of the song, but what you need to do is respect Black people

Jay Ray:

enough to be like, "You know what?

Jay Ray:

I

Jay Ray:

don't have to say that word though.

Jay Ray:

I could just

Jay Ray:

skip that when I rap the word, and I could continue on and flow into it.

Jay Ray:

Because you know what?

Jay Ray:

I

Jay Ray:

respect these Rolls-Royce of people

Sir Daniel:

Mm-hmm.

Jay Ray:

And I understand that that

Jay Ray:

magic is part of that

Jay Ray:

community,

Sir Daniel:

Yes.

Jay Ray:

I am a, a, a, I am a guest that experience, and I love being part of it.

Jay Ray:

And I don't have to, don't have to use all the terms because I understand

Jay Ray:

the history and I respect the people."

Sir Daniel:

You know, while you was, um, you were saying that, I just remembered,

Sir Daniel:

um, a moment in time when we're talking about,

Sir Daniel:

um-

Sir Daniel:

Latinos, um, our

Sir Daniel:

Hispanic brothers and sisters

Sir Daniel:

in

Sir Daniel:

the music in, in, in the music

Sir Daniel:

industry,

Sir Daniel:

especially when it comes to hip-hop.

Sir Daniel:

do you recall

Sir Daniel:

when Jennifer Lopez

Sir Daniel:

was, um,

Sir Daniel:

featured on a song with one Ja

Sir Daniel:

Rule, and she had a

Sir Daniel:

verse where she said, I tell them niggas they

Sir Daniel:

can't..."

Sir Daniel:

And it was like,

Sir Daniel:

"Huh?"

Jay Ray:

and, and

Jay Ray:

wait a minute, Black folks was like, "Well now

Jay Ray:

wait, now

Jay Ray:

wait a

Sir Daniel:

Not you.

Sir Daniel:

Not you.

Sir Daniel:

No, no, not you, Jennifer Lopez, because at this time, Jennifer Lopez

Sir Daniel:

is like, what?

Sir Daniel:

Five husbands

Sir Daniel:

in,

Sir Daniel:

and they've all been white

Sir Daniel:

men.

Jay Ray:

Yes.

Sir Daniel:

She can... Jennifer Lopez, even though she's Jenny

Sir Daniel:

From the Block, she from the

Sir Daniel:

Bronx, and she's from p- she's Puerto

Sir Daniel:

Rican.

Sir Daniel:

J- I think Jennifer Lopez, because she has, she tapped so hard into,

Sir Daniel:

to whiteness and white Hollywood, that it

Sir Daniel:

w- that

Sir Daniel:

coming from her,

Sir Daniel:

it was offe- it was like a white woman.

Sir Daniel:

It was just a a white woman saying it, and it was a absolute no because

Sir Daniel:

people got offended immediately.

Jay Ray:

I inherently we get it.

Jay Ray:

You know what I'm saying?

Jay Ray:

And I think it is a matter

Jay Ray:

of we have to uphold-

Jay Ray:

Uh, our adherence to our

Jay Ray:

brand at all points.

Jay Ray:

I love that Rolls-Royce of culture.

Jay Ray:

Like, I absolutely love that, and I really do see our,

Jay Ray:

uh, what we do as that.

Jay Ray:

And

Jay Ray:

I feel like if we uphold that

Jay Ray:

the

Jay Ray:

whole time,

Jay Ray:

we good, right?

Sir Daniel:

That's right.

Sir Daniel:

They don't want the struggle, they just want the

Sir Daniel:

shine.

Sir Daniel:

And, and bring back "Roots"

Sir Daniel:

into the

Sir Daniel:

classrooms.

Sir Daniel:

That's what

Sir Daniel:

it

Sir Daniel:

is.

Sir Daniel:

We need to make, We need to

Sir Daniel:

make them sit down and watch "Roots" again.

Sir Daniel:

When They stop doing

Sir Daniel:

that,

Jay Ray:

that whip.

Sir Daniel:

rolling that... Go to the AV department and rolling that

Sir Daniel:

TV on, on that cart and popping that video cassette, that VCR,

Sir Daniel:

and popping that VHS of "Roots," all

Sir Daniel:

four

Sir Daniel:

hours, and Make them watch it.

Jay Ray:

and not be, uh, gaslit into people saying, "Oh, that's old stuff.

Jay Ray:

We ain't gotta keep talking

Jay Ray:

I don't want these ...recipes to get

Jay Ray:

lost, because if we keep letting people run amok the way they've been

Jay Ray:

running amok, are gonna have other

Jay Ray:

problems.

Jay Ray:

I'm glad we had this conversation.

Jay Ray:

Let us know, uh, your

Jay Ray:

thoughts in uh, the comments, uh,

Jay Ray:

your thoughts on the use of the N-word in the music or just in

Jay Ray:

general in society, 'cause it has been, it's been very different.

Jay Ray:

But, um, if you can see our faces and hear our

Jay Ray:

voices, go ahead and subscribe wherever you are.

Jay Ray:

Share Queue Points with your friends, family, and

Jay Ray:

colleagues, because if you enjoy the show,

Jay Ray:

chances

Jay Ray:

are they will as well.

Jay Ray:

Visit our website at queuepoints.com.

Jay Ray:

You can watch all of the archive episodes of the show there and become a member.

Jay Ray:

Be- becoming a member helps to keep the lights on in Queue Points land.

Jay Ray:

Um, shop our store at store.queuepoints.com.

Jay Ray:

Check us out on Substack where we have some additional content

Jay Ray:

as well.

Jay Ray:

We appreciate y'all, And we love y'all.

Sir Daniel:

And it's like I say in every episode, in this life, you have a choice.

Sir Daniel:

You can either pick up the needle or you can let the record play.

Sir Daniel:

I am DJ Sir Daniel.

Jay Ray:

And my name is Jay Ray, y'all.

Sir Daniel:

And this is

Sir Daniel:

Queue Points podcast, dropping the needle on Black music history.

Sir Daniel:

We will see you on the next go around.

Sir Daniel:

My niggas count figures, my niggas- Hey.

Sir Daniel:

Whoa, whoa,

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About the Podcast

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Queue Points

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About your hosts

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DJ Sir Daniel

DJ Sir Daniel is a DJ/Selector and part of Atlanta's, all-vinyl crew, Wax Fundamentals. Co-host of the Queue Points podcast, he is an advocate for DJ culture and is passionate about creating atmospheres of inclusivity and jubilation from a Black perspective.

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Jay Ray

Johnnie Ray Kornegay III (Jay Ray) is a podcast consultant and co-host and producer of Queue Points, the Ambie Award-nominated podcast that drops the needle on Black music history. In addition to his duties at Queue Points, he is the Deputy Director of Strategy and Impact for CNP (Counter Narrative Project). A photographer, creative consultant and social commentator, Jay Ray's work is centered around a commitment to telling full and honest stories about communities often ignored.